CMA playing "Nurse Manager?" CMA boundaries? NPD?

Published

**I mean no disrespect to CMAs, and would really appreciate your input.

I recently interviewed at a Peds office I worked at from mid-90s to early-00's. Many changes, but 3-4 providers + 3-4 remaining staff greeted me with big hugs and "great-to-see-you's." It was so heart-warming?especially after a few several (personal & professional) life-changing punches to the throat!

My experience and 2 thumbs up from nearly a third of the staff make me pretty confident I'm a shoo-in. Especially since they've been "urgently hiring," for 2 openings, for a few weeks.

I was so excited at the thought of working with people that I knew wouldn't plunge a knife in my back or mess with my head. BTW: I'm not paranoid, I'm very self aware and honest...a painfully earned "gift" that few people are comfortable with, and definitely don't want to talk about.

Niggles:

"Office Manager"/MHA believes in full transparency, so he mentions some turn-over issues they're working through, then says "so-n-so is a CMA...my right hand...but only makes the schedule...are you OK with that?" I wanted to say "I was until you asked." In hindsight I recognize his attempts to describe a CMA with some great attributes that helps with scheduling/ordering/admin stuff, but it didn't/doesn't make sense. At some point he said something like "she's great, I don't know how I'd do it without her."

A fleeting sense of being gas-lit, almost like being sized up for a fresh target, came and went.

We talked about all kinds of stuff, he would ask my opinion or invite me to share my thoughts...I kept thinking too much, too much...then I remembered reading something about people pumping others for information, not because they care about you or your opinion...they stockpile, and use it as ammunition.

Then he said something about discipline, or maybe current problems they're having. I was mostly paying attention until he said "....me or 'Right Hand'."

THAT got my full attention, as I was getting the distinct impression that "Right Hand" had more of a managerial role, than was being let on.

Or maybe I wasn't "catching on" quick enough, because as I was preparing to leave he texted "Right Hand," so we could meet. Thank goodness she didn't respond, as I likely would have stood there, dumbstruck.

It was so strange to hear a grown man with a Master's Degree, speak so highly of a CMA, referring to her as his "Right Hand," almost as his "professional" equal. Maybe you had to be there...?

I can't judge her, and really not even him, but my lower jaw started tingling as we were saying good-bye. I met a lot of people -- old and new -- when we did the tour, but if they weren't at their desk, we just kept going. We didn't even wait or look around for the Dr who's kids I used to babysit.

Only "Right Hand" -- the CMA that makes the schedule, which he and I had already discussed, in detail -- was summoned, "to meet me."

My "BS radar" -- free, with a painfully earned ArmChair degree in Psychology, specializing in NPD -- suggests they came as a "set" or just happened to make a "perfect match." And has me wondering if all the employee turnover/discord is all due to lazy, complacent CMAs with attendance issues...?

What are a CMA's limits/scope/role? In the real-world, preferably...like what's acceptable vs what's no-way-in-h*ll?

I can't judge any who think I'm off-my-rocker, but hand-to-heart, I'll follow up, whether I'm right or wrong...

But based on everything, I smell a[n] [ove]RAT[ed], manager wannabe...that's very likely a narcissist...with a weird relationship, but I don't suspect sexual, with her boss.

Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development.
21 minutes ago, RenaissanceNurse said:

The absence of an actual "Nurse Manager" -- with a college degree, often BSN, these days -- is the issue.

You just are not going to find that in most ambulatory settings. It's not cost effective, and let's face it, healthcare has become a business.

6
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Med-Surg, L&D, NB-100+ (home care & office).
5 hours ago, Rose_Queen said:

You just are not going to find that in most ambulatory settings. It's not cost effective, and let's face it, healthcare has become a business.

Agreed, hence the reason I called it an issue.

My BS radar is detecting some "gotta have the last word."?❤️

1
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
16 minutes ago, RenaissanceNurse said:

Agreed, hence the reason I called it an issue.

My BS radar is detecting some "gotta have the last word."?❤️

Wow, you sure are...extra.

14
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in retired from healthcare.
On 1/14/2020 at 7:20 PM, klone said:

Dude. I don't even know what to say to that. Your OP, and your subsequent posts, do seem like a teapot. Yes, you do sound paranoid.

Also, your attitude, that because manager has an MHA, he can't take advice and rely on a lowly MA to help run the clinic, is quite distasteful.

I think you're being incredibly unfair, and ascribing ulterior, malevolent motives to this MA based on....I'm not really sure what. I find the idea that you've already diagnosed this person with narcissistic personality disorder infuriating.

I agree with the others that you shouldn't take this job, but only because you've already made up your mind on how this is going to play out, and I think it would be unfair to the employees at the clinic, as I could easily see you bringing a level of toxicity to the workplace dynamics.

I don't really agree with this personal attack since I have seen many CNAs and med techs abuse their power and control when they're not qualified to be the ones in control and the higher-ups look the other way at their abuse of their co-workers. I do think the O.P. should get to know the scheduler since it does NOT require a nursing degree to be sensitive to the needs and feelings of others. As you probably know, even a DoN can be guilty of abusing their power, in which case they're wise to delegate responsibilities to someone better able to communicate with the staff. The O.P. might find that the CMA is more understanding of her needs than a higher-up who sits in an office most of the day. It happens sometimes where the CNAs and med aides are easier to talk with than a head supervisor who might be quick to judge and evaluate the people who work under them.

1
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
21 minutes ago, Saiderap said:

I don't really agree with this personal attack since I have seen many CNAs and med techs abuse their power and control when they're not qualified to be the ones in control

To be clear though, in this situation, the only "qualification" the CNA needs to function in an administrative role is to be hired/placed in that role by her boss.

2
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Nursing Education, Public Health, Medical Policy.
On 1/14/2020 at 4:20 PM, klone said:

Dude. I don't even know what to say to that. Your OP, and your subsequent posts, do seem like a teapot. Yes, you do sound paranoid.

Also, your attitude, that because manager has an MHA, he can't take advice and rely on a lowly MA to help run the clinic, is quite distasteful.

I think you're being incredibly unfair, and ascribing ulterior, malevolent motives to this MA based on....I'm not really sure what. I find the idea that you've already diagnosed this person with narcissistic personality disorder infuriating.

I agree with the others that you shouldn't take this job, but only because you've already made up your mind on how this is going to play out, and I think it would be unfair to the employees at the clinic, as I could easily see you bringing a level of toxicity to the workplace dynamics.

This^^^^100%

1
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in retired from healthcare.
On 1/16/2020 at 1:05 PM, LPN Retired said:

I don't think you should apply.

I think you would end up being resentful of this CMA person and it could cause conflict.

I think too many posters are trying to make a decision for the OP and not giving her a chance to think for herself. I do think she should get to know the CMA and the others before deciding that this is the wrong job for her without ever giving it a chance.

The CMA might have been given her responsibilities based on her ability to bond with her co-workers and to empathize with them and not based on her need or perceived right to power, control and authority. I don't think anyone should assume that she is unfairly controlling or disciplining nurses until there's evidence of this.

2
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in school nurse.
1 hour ago, Saiderap said:

I think too many posters are trying to make a decision for the OP and not giving her a chance to think for herself.

In general, people who think for themselves don't post for anonymous strangers (is that redundant...??) asking them for advice about what they should do.

Sometimes, though, they seek a validation echo chamber in which only opinions that match with theirs are sought, and any that don't are rejected.

9
Up Vote Up Vote ×

I get what you are saying, having dealt with my fair share of BS. As conveyed, it feels like there is something off...about their relationship, his affinity for the CMAs opinion, her role. I don't understand why the person that makes the schedule would be called for a meet and greet. I don't understand why this one person's role would even be brought up in the interview, especially when talking about the high turnover and other seemingly negative issues (the full disclosure part). Gut tells me that others have had issues with CMA in the past.

2
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in School nurse and geriatrics..
On 1/15/2020 at 5:43 PM, TriciaJ said:

I'm smelling a rat, too. I had no trouble with a CMA doing the scheduling and handling administrative scut work. But is this person actually going to be disciplining nurses? No dice.

Nothing wrong with having a right hand person, but I'm getting that the boss was making way too much of it. That is a red flag. And by the way, I do think they're sleeping together. Call me jaded but there it is.

I agree with previous advice to shadow. Have lunch with some of your former coworkers. Get the real story before you sign on the dotted line.

My first thought was the very same thing about them sleeping together.

I have no proof I just know it's true.

Jaded here too ?

1
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in retired from healthcare.
On 1/27/2020 at 6:20 AM, WanderRN said:

I don't understand why the person that makes the schedule would be called for a meet and greet. I don't understand why this one person's role would even be brought up in the interview, especially when talking about the high turnover and other seemingly negative issues (the full disclosure part). Gut tells me that others have had issues with CMA in the past.

If they're thinking about hiring someone, they might think it's useful to have them meet the scheduler since some employers have you in for a meeting and then schedule you immediately. If I was the one in the interview, I would ask them why there was a high turnover and what problems they dealt with to ensure that if they hire me, I could help them with a solution and not be part of the problem.

1
Up Vote Up Vote ×
On 1/14/2020 at 12:53 AM, RenaissanceNurse said:

**I mean no disrespect to CMAs, and would really appreciate your input.

I recently interviewed at a Peds office I worked at from mid-90s to early-00's. Many changes, but 3-4 providers + 3-4 remaining staff greeted me with big hugs and "great-to-see-you's." It was so heart-warming?especially after a few several (personal & professional) life-changing punches to the throat!

My experience and 2 thumbs up from nearly a third of the staff make me pretty confident I'm a shoo-in. Especially since they've been "urgently hiring," for 2 openings, for a few weeks.

I was so excited at the thought of working with people that I knew wouldn't plunge a knife in my back or mess with my head. BTW: I'm not paranoid, I'm very self aware and honest...a painfully earned "gift" that few people are comfortable with, and definitely don't want to talk about.

Niggles:

"Office Manager"/MHA believes in full transparency, so he mentions some turn-over issues they're working through, then says "so-n-so is a CMA...my right hand...but only makes the schedule...are you OK with that?" I wanted to say "I was until you asked." In hindsight I recognize his attempts to describe a CMA with some great attributes that helps with scheduling/ordering/admin stuff, but it didn't/doesn't make sense. At some point he said something like "she's great, I don't know how I'd do it without her."

A fleeting sense of being gas-lit, almost like being sized up for a fresh target, came and went.

We talked about all kinds of stuff, he would ask my opinion or invite me to share my thoughts...I kept thinking too much, too much...then I remembered reading something about people pumping others for information, not because they care about you or your opinion...they stockpile, and use it as ammunition.

Then he said something about discipline, or maybe current problems they're having. I was mostly paying attention until he said "....me or 'Right Hand'."

THAT got my full attention, as I was getting the distinct impression that "Right Hand" had more of a managerial role, than was being let on.

Or maybe I wasn't "catching on" quick enough, because as I was preparing to leave he texted "Right Hand," so we could meet. Thank goodness she didn't respond, as I likely would have stood there, dumbstruck.

It was so strange to hear a grown man with a Master's Degree, speak so highly of a CMA, referring to her as his "Right Hand," almost as his "professional" equal. Maybe you had to be there...?

I can't judge her, and really not even him, but my lower jaw started tingling as we were saying good-bye. I met a lot of people -- old and new -- when we did the tour, but if they weren't at their desk, we just kept going. We didn't even wait or look around for the Dr who's kids I used to babysit.

Only "Right Hand" -- the CMA that makes the schedule, which he and I had already discussed, in detail -- was summoned, "to meet me."

My "BS radar" -- free, with a painfully earned ArmChair degree in Psychology, specializing in NPD -- suggests they came as a "set" or just happened to make a "perfect match." And has me wondering if all the employee turnover/discord is all due to lazy, complacent CMAs with attendance issues...?

What are a CMA's limits/scope/role? In the real-world, preferably...like what's acceptable vs what's no-way-in-h*ll?

I can't judge any who think I'm off-my-rocker, but hand-to-heart, I'll follow up, whether I'm right or wrong...

But based on everything, I smell a[n] [ove]RAT[ed], manager wannabe...that's very likely a narcissist...with a weird relationship, but I don't suspect sexual, with her boss.

Ever heard this quote? "If there is smoke, there is a fire."

1
Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Join the Discussion