CMA playing "Nurse Manager?" CMA boundaries? NPD?

[RenaissanceNurse]

**I mean no disrespect to CMAs, and would really appreciate your input.

I recently interviewed at a Peds office I worked at from mid-90s to early-00's. Many changes, but 3-4 providers + 3-4 remaining staff greeted me with big hugs and "great-to-see-you's." It was so heart-warming?especially after a few several (personal & professional) life-changing punches to the throat!

My experience and 2 thumbs up from nearly a third of the staff make me pretty confident I'm a shoo-in. Especially since they've been "urgently hiring," for 2 openings, for a few weeks.

I was so excited at the thought of working with people that I knew wouldn't plunge a knife in my back or mess with my head. BTW: I'm not paranoid, I'm very self aware and honest...a painfully earned "gift" that few people are comfortable with, and definitely don't want to talk about.

Niggles:

"Office Manager"/MHA believes in full transparency, so he mentions some turn-over issues they're working through, then says "so-n-so is a CMA...my right hand...but only makes the schedule...are you OK with that?" I wanted to say "I was until you asked." In hindsight I recognize his attempts to describe a CMA with some great attributes that helps with scheduling/ordering/admin stuff, but it didn't/doesn't make sense. At some point he said something like "she's great, I don't know how I'd do it without her."

A fleeting sense of being gas-lit, almost like being sized up for a fresh target, came and went.

We talked about all kinds of stuff, he would ask my opinion or invite me to share my thoughts...I kept thinking too much, too much...then I remembered reading something about people pumping others for information, not because they care about you or your opinion...they stockpile, and use it as ammunition.

Then he said something about discipline, or maybe current problems they're having. I was mostly paying attention until he said "....me or 'Right Hand'."

THAT got my full attention, as I was getting the distinct impression that "Right Hand" had more of a managerial role, than was being let on.

Or maybe I wasn't "catching on" quick enough, because as I was preparing to leave he texted "Right Hand," so we could meet. Thank goodness she didn't respond, as I likely would have stood there, dumbstruck.

It was so strange to hear a grown man with a Master's Degree, speak so highly of a CMA, referring to her as his "Right Hand," almost as his "professional" equal. Maybe you had to be there...?

I can't judge her, and really not even him, but my lower jaw started tingling as we were saying good-bye. I met a lot of people -- old and new -- when we did the tour, but if they weren't at their desk, we just kept going. We didn't even wait or look around for the Dr who's kids I used to babysit.

Only "Right Hand" -- the CMA that makes the schedule, which he and I had already discussed, in detail -- was summoned, "to meet me."

My "BS radar" -- free, with a painfully earned ArmChair degree in Psychology, specializing in NPD -- suggests they came as a "set" or just happened to make a "perfect match." And has me wondering if all the employee turnover/discord is all due to lazy, complacent CMAs with attendance issues...?

What are a CMA's limits/scope/role? In the real-world, preferably...like what's acceptable vs what's no-way-in-h*ll?

I can't judge any who think I'm off-my-rocker, but hand-to-heart, I'll follow up, whether I'm right or wrong...

But based on everything, I smell a[n] [ove]RAT[ed], manager wannabe...that's very likely a narcissist...with a weird relationship, but I don't suspect sexual, with her boss.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

On 1/16/2020 at 8:30 AM, Wuzzie said:

I was going to do it for a bit of lighthearted humor but didn't have time!

[railroadrn]

Having experienced narcissistic abuse from a family member as well as a manager, all the red flags are here. Just run.

My narc nurse manager thrives on having special pets that she made sure everyone knew would be in charge of them. She put them on a pedestal and made them feel special by assigning them duties that belong to a manager. Let’s be honest, it’s a power trip because it makes them feel special and powerful. And as long as they do it, the manager is happy.

I was not one of those people. I’m more than happy NOT being in management. When my narc manager tried to give me her duties (on top on my own) I was very clear stating that I did not want to supervise or manage as I was an hourly employee. She tried to resist and eventually 2 of her supervisors had to fly in and sit down with her sad say “sorry but these are your jobs not railroadrn’s” but the cycle of picking favorites and assigning them special tasks caused a lot of strife = lots of turnover.

I could go on and on but if you’re looking for validation and someone to tell you your feeling is right, that’s what I’m telling you

[rebeccaUTA]

Not ever having met you, and only going by your original and subsequent posts here, I’m going to be honest and say that I think you are recovering from a trauma and still have a lot of healing to do before immersing yourself in any of your past relationships - professional or otherwise.

Just like a physical trauma will limit one’s abilities to perform physically, your emotional trauma is limiting your ability to perform professionally and objectively.

If it were me, I would decline this position (which already appears to be emotionally overwhelming) and take a lighter load for the time being. Perhaps take on a home health position where you can spend more time caring for patients and less time in an office. There’s observable gossip and drama at almost any office if it’s something someone is sensitive to and it it sounds like you’re hypersensitive to those things right now.

Also, it would be good to revisit this thread sometime in the next few months after not having read it a while. It can be very therapeutic to see your words objectively in hindsight.

If you are not seeing a therapist or crisis counselor, you should. Just because you can’t see your trauma in the flesh doesn’t mean it’s not there. Your pain is evident in your post.

I wish you the very best of life in your recovery. Know your limitations while you move on from your trauma or you WILL continue to re-injure yourself.

God bless!!!

[LPN Retired, LPN]

I don't think you should apply.

I think you would end up being resentful of this CMA person and it could cause conflict.

[Guest219794]

This thread has been a pretty interesting read.

I enjoyed the progression from "noted" to "noted and deep sixed"

Why don't you just ask somebody you know there what the deal is?

[klone, MSN, RN]

On 1/16/2020 at 3:58 PM, hherrn said:

I enjoyed the progression from "noted" to "noted and deep sixed"

I don't even understand what that means

[TriciaJ, RN]

1 hour ago, klone said:

I don't even understand what that means

I think "noted" means "read and acknowledged". "Noted and deep-sixed" means "read and disregarded".

[RenaissanceNurse]

On 1/15/2020 at 6:11 PM, BostonFNP said:

Do you have a problem with a practice manager disciplining a nurse they employ? Why does it matter what their degree is? The facility hired them into that role.

I own a private practice with a partner. We employ an amazing practice manager with years of experience who has an associate degree in healthcare administration. She makes our hiring and firing decisions for our medical assistants, admin/office staff, and even our clinicians (NPs and MDs).

Are you saying that unlicensed medical staff can manage/discipline licensed employees?

[RenaissanceNurse]

On 1/16/2020 at 10:33 AM, rebeccaUTA said:

Not ever having met you, and only going by your original and subsequent posts here, I’m going to be honest and say that I think you are recovering from a trauma and still have a lot of healing to do before immersing yourself in any of your past relationships - professional or otherwise.

Just like a physical trauma will limit one’s abilities to perform physically, your emotional trauma is limiting your ability to perform professionally and objectively.

If it were me, I would decline this position (which already appears to be emotionally overwhelming) and take a lighter load for the time being. Perhaps take on a home health position where you can spend more time caring for patients and less time in an office. There’s observable gossip and drama at almost any office if it’s something someone is sensitive to and it it sounds like you’re hypersensitive to those things right now.

Also, it would be good to revisit this thread sometime in the next few months after not having read it a while. It can be very therapeutic to see your words objectively in hindsight.

If you are not seeing a therapist or crisis counselor, you should. Just because you can’t see your trauma in the flesh doesn’t mean it’s not there. Your pain is evident in your post.

I wish you the very best of life in your recovery. Know your limitations while you move on from your trauma or you WILL continue to re-injure yourself.

God bless!!!

Thank you for your kind words of wisdom and support❤️

[Rose_Queen, BSN, MSN, RN]

1 hour ago, RenaissanceNurse said:

Are you saying that unlicensed medical staff can manage/discipline licensed employees?

Yes, if they are in a supervisory role and it is not a scope of practice issue. It doesn’t take a nursing license to manage attendance records or discipline someone for attendance issues per the facility policy.

[RenaissanceNurse]

(PREFACE: Quoted stuff is nearly verbatim, other stuff, edited, but essentially what was said/meant. And I trust "CJ"...she's a bit mouthy and brusque, but pulls no punches.)

CJ started: "I'm sure as soon as ["Right Hand"] heard about all the huggin' and reminiscing, she did everything in her power to keep you off the short list. A loved and respected alum?...you didn't stand a chance."

"scary aggressive...some call her evil, but the Catholic in me won't allow me"

"brags about being a CMA, with so much authority"

refers to herself as "Head Bleep in Charge," although others say "Head Bleep in Charge."

likes to hire "people dumber than me, so they can't make me look like an idiot" (yes, ["Right Hand's"] words)

"dissatisfaction and turn-over is 'the new norm', I've never seen anything like it in 40+ years."

I asked a few questions, like if she likes making people uncomfortable/squirm/cry? She paused and said "...never really thought about it b/c she doesn't mess with me...but definitely...just yesterday...mom worried sick over NB twins..."

The final candidate (not me) raised a few eyebrows and questions, but hand-to-heart, CJ suspected it went unsaid that I was too "kind and sweet" to be brought into such a bleeping-toxic-bleep-hole. She said "that's just my opinion, but I think I speak for most" and "believe me, you don't want to work here."

They did come as a pair, and OM is ["Right Hand's"] "pathetic, dreamy-eyed, push-over." They've worked, and quit or been fired from 2-3 different places. The only reason I suspected it, was because I experienced a similar "Twisted Trio" a few years back.

Anyway, railroadrn's and jory's responses hits the nail on the head...narcissism is running rampant and if we don't make some kind of effort to call-them-out, speak up, and support their targets, the medical field as we know it will collapse.

?I did get hired as a Private Duty Nurse, not my dream job, but it's good money, and I'm employed! HOORAY!! Hopefully things will work out, and I can take my time looking for something that better suits me.

Thank you for ALL the responses, I will use each and every one to my advantage, as well as my own OP. Many of you said some really thought-provoking things that I copy and pasted, as little reminders to stay positive and find ways to better manage these kinds of situations.

[RenaissanceNurse]

1 hour ago, Rose_Queen said:

Yes, if they are in a supervisory role and it is not a scope of practice issue. It doesn’t take a nursing license to manage attendance records or discipline someone for attendance issues per the facility policy.

Come to find out, she's not. She was hired to room patients and is now "HBiC." The absence of an actual "Nurse Manager" -- with a college degree, often BSN, these days -- is the issue.