CMA playing "Nurse Manager?" CMA boundaries? NPD?

[RenaissanceNurse]

**I mean no disrespect to CMAs, and would really appreciate your input.

I recently interviewed at a Peds office I worked at from mid-90s to early-00's. Many changes, but 3-4 providers + 3-4 remaining staff greeted me with big hugs and "great-to-see-you's." It was so heart-warming?especially after a few several (personal & professional) life-changing punches to the throat!

My experience and 2 thumbs up from nearly a third of the staff make me pretty confident I'm a shoo-in. Especially since they've been "urgently hiring," for 2 openings, for a few weeks.

I was so excited at the thought of working with people that I knew wouldn't plunge a knife in my back or mess with my head. BTW: I'm not paranoid, I'm very self aware and honest...a painfully earned "gift" that few people are comfortable with, and definitely don't want to talk about.

Niggles:

"Office Manager"/MHA believes in full transparency, so he mentions some turn-over issues they're working through, then says "so-n-so is a CMA...my right hand...but only makes the schedule...are you OK with that?" I wanted to say "I was until you asked." In hindsight I recognize his attempts to describe a CMA with some great attributes that helps with scheduling/ordering/admin stuff, but it didn't/doesn't make sense. At some point he said something like "she's great, I don't know how I'd do it without her."

A fleeting sense of being gas-lit, almost like being sized up for a fresh target, came and went.

We talked about all kinds of stuff, he would ask my opinion or invite me to share my thoughts...I kept thinking too much, too much...then I remembered reading something about people pumping others for information, not because they care about you or your opinion...they stockpile, and use it as ammunition.

Then he said something about discipline, or maybe current problems they're having. I was mostly paying attention until he said "....me or 'Right Hand'."

THAT got my full attention, as I was getting the distinct impression that "Right Hand" had more of a managerial role, than was being let on.

Or maybe I wasn't "catching on" quick enough, because as I was preparing to leave he texted "Right Hand," so we could meet. Thank goodness she didn't respond, as I likely would have stood there, dumbstruck.

It was so strange to hear a grown man with a Master's Degree, speak so highly of a CMA, referring to her as his "Right Hand," almost as his "professional" equal. Maybe you had to be there...?

I can't judge her, and really not even him, but my lower jaw started tingling as we were saying good-bye. I met a lot of people -- old and new -- when we did the tour, but if they weren't at their desk, we just kept going. We didn't even wait or look around for the Dr who's kids I used to babysit.

Only "Right Hand" -- the CMA that makes the schedule, which he and I had already discussed, in detail -- was summoned, "to meet me."

My "BS radar" -- free, with a painfully earned ArmChair degree in Psychology, specializing in NPD -- suggests they came as a "set" or just happened to make a "perfect match." And has me wondering if all the employee turnover/discord is all due to lazy, complacent CMAs with attendance issues...?

What are a CMA's limits/scope/role? In the real-world, preferably...like what's acceptable vs what's no-way-in-h*ll?

I can't judge any who think I'm off-my-rocker, but hand-to-heart, I'll follow up, whether I'm right or wrong...

But based on everything, I smell a[n] [ove]RAT[ed], manager wannabe...that's very likely a narcissist...with a weird relationship, but I don't suspect sexual, with her boss.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

20 minutes ago, TriciaJ said:

I had no trouble with a CMA doing the scheduling and handling administrative scut work. But is this person actually going to be disciplining nurses? No dice.

Do you have a problem with a practice manager disciplining a nurse they employ? Why does it matter what their degree is? The facility hired them into that role.

I own a private practice with a partner. We employ an amazing practice manager with years of experience who has an associate degree in healthcare administration. She makes our hiring and firing decisions for our medical assistants, admin/office staff, and even our clinicians (NPs and MDs).

[FolksBtrippin, BSN, RN]

My opinion:

You haven't even met this CMA and you have already diagnosed her with a personality disorder.

You are anxious, and perhaps hypervigilant because you were recently in a toxic environment so now you are on high alert for any signs of toxicity in this one.

But you just don't have the info to make this kind of judgment.

My suggestion:

Get more info. Ask lots of questions. Ask the folks you know over there what the scoop is. Request an interview with the CMA and then meet her with an open mind.

Take your time.

[RenaissanceNurse]

On 1/15/2020 at 2:47 AM, kp2016 said:

"Especially since they've been "urgently hiring," for 2 openings, for a few weeks."

"Then he said something about discipline,or maybe current problems they're having"

Moving on from all the previous comments I have to say these two quotes really caught my attention.

It’s fairly obvious you have been through a really rough time professionally and or personally and are looking from a fresh positive new start. Sadly as much as you would like it to be this clinic where you know people and have some sense of being welcomed home the things you have written lead me to think it would be a really bad idea. I really don’t wish to pile onto the previous comments, other than to say I think you should turn down this opportunity and keeping looking for something that might be a better fit.

Best of luck!

Thank you so much for your words of encouragement and support!

[RenaissanceNurse]

On 1/14/2020 at 4:44 PM, LibraSunCNM said:

And what I'm saying is I saw no evidence in your post of mind ********, just possible red flags for a poor workplace. It sounds like this is much ado about nothing---just walk away.

I get the impression that you have zero interest in my well-being and ask that you stop wasting your time, with what I consider faux "suggestions" and "concern."

[RenaissanceNurse]

15 hours ago, JKL33 said:

I have to say that in picturing the conversation you've reported, it seems possible for it to have come off as singing this MA's praises a little too much, rendering the same effect as "doth protest too much." I would find that behavior (as well as things like asking if a random potential hire is okay with the way the office is run) somewhat suspicious for manipulative tendency/pandering and the like. IRL it isn't too difficult to discern this kind of thing. He also might have given the overall impression that he is a little unsure of himself, which is an easy enough situation for others to take advantage of and yes it's possible that the MA has found a way to do just that.

But....you would need more information than a somewhat-awkward interview in order to know.

I would ask to shadow if you can keep an open mind about it.

Agreed! Thanks for the input and support...much appreciated.

[RenaissanceNurse]

On 1/15/2020 at 10:33 AM, Horseshoe said:

There was nothing wrong with that poster's communication skills.

Come on, be honest: you came here for validation, not for honest opinions.

Your "gut" has told you a whole lot of things about this job and the person as yet unseen (amazing that you can diagnose someone with a personality disorder without even meeting them-must be some really great psychology credentials you've got there) who may be in a position to impact your experience.

You've got it all figured out, so best to trust your instincts and run-not walk-away.

Noted.

[RenaissanceNurse]

8 hours ago, Cowboyardee said:

If the person interviewing you hadn't made such a big deal out of it, I would say that you are making too many assumptions about the CMA and also putting far too much weight on her education level and how you think that should determine her status rather than her skill set, work ethic, and ability to navigate power hierarchies in the real world, which don't stack up nicely according to how impressive one's education and resume might look on paper. (In fairness, you might be making this error anyway).

But your interviewer did go out of his way to belabor this particular point, and that would raise my eyebrows too. If the arrangement wasn't already a source of contention, he probably wouldn't have bothered.

Ask for a day or two shadowing on the job before making a decision. Try your best to see and evaluate this new workplace on its own terms and as it is, its own unique (and possibly disasterous) environment, rather than as a retread of your past.

Best wishes.

Love the Devil's Advocate? (and suggestions)...all will be taken into deep consideration. Thanks for your frank and kind words.

[RenaissanceNurse]

On 1/15/2020 at 5:29 PM, Hyperflycemia said:

I am lost with that the particular concern is here?

Administrators don't need any specific degree, a private practice care hire whomever they want to fill a role. If this woman is going to be your immediate superior or assistant manager or assistant to the manager it doesn't matter what her degree is in (or what certification she holds). The owners/management put her in that role because they feel that is best for the practice.

Is it worse that she is a CMA with experience in private practice vs a new graduate MBA that's never worked a job in healthcare?

Noted, deep-sixed.

[RenaissanceNurse]

7 hours ago, TriciaJ said:

I'm smelling a rat, too. I had no trouble with a CMA doing the scheduling and handling administrative scut work. But is this person actually going to be disciplining nurses? No dice.

Nothing wrong with having a right hand person, but I'm getting that the boss was making way too much of it. That is a red flag. And by the way, I do think they're sleeping together. Call me jaded but there it is.

I agree with previous advice to shadow. Have lunch with some of your former coworkers. Get the real story before you sign on the dotted line.

Thank you for the excellent advice!

6 hours ago, Hyperflycemia said:

Do you have a problem with a practice manager disciplining a nurse they employ? Why does it matter what their degree is? The facility hired them into that role.

I own a private practice with a partner. We employ an amazing practice manager with years of experience who has an associate degree in healthcare administration. She makes our hiring and firing decisions for our medical assistants, admin/office staff, and even our clinicians (NPs and MDs).

Noted, deep-sixed.

[RenaissanceNurse]

On 1/15/2020 at 7:14 PM, FolksBtrippin said:

My opinion:

You haven't even met this CMA and you have already diagnosed her with a personality disorder.

You are anxious, and perhaps hypervigilant because you were recently in a toxic environment so now you are on high alert for any signs of toxicity in this one.

But you just don't have the info to make this kind of judgment.

My suggestion:

Get more info. Ask lots of questions. Ask the folks you know over there what the scoop is. Request an interview with the CMA and then meet her with an open mind.

Take your time.

You're right, and I will. Thanks for the encouragement ?

[CrunchRN, ADN, RN]

I did office nursing for years back in the day. This isn't unusual. Honestly, I was happy to let them deal with the administrative carp.

I would suggest you are overthinking this.

[Wuzzie]

On 1/16/2020 at 7:47 AM, CrunchRN said:

Honestly, I was happy to let them deal with the administrative carp.