BSN does not mean better... Sometimes education is overrated!

GadgetRN71, ASN, RN · Jun 3, 2007

LOL...I guess I'm a special case, since either that WAS taught in my ADN program, or I'm a psychic learner!

It was taught in my ADN program as well..and in the real world I have heard BSN's claim to be better but they were smacked down pretty quickly, because the majority of the nurses in my hospital and specialty(OR) are ADN's. The nurse educator was an ADN as well as the majority of the lead nurses. However...I have also heard attitude from ADN's when I say that I am thinking of starting my BSN coursework soon. WHY oh Why are nurses so judgemental with each other? This is why, as a group, it takes forever to get something accomplished that would benefit the profession. Just my 2 cents.

Lisa CCU RN, RN · Jun 3, 2007

Personally, I think there is some highhat somewhere who purposely allows there to still be three different ways to get an RN, so that there would be division and some kind of way to rank ourselves so we'd have a reason to argue amongst ourselves. This way, instead of working together and figuring out how we can improve our nurse patient ratios, wages, and other issues, we spend our time bickering about nurse aide duties, LPN's, and the whole degree debate.

Really good plan.

Divided we fall.

GadgetRN71, ASN, RN · Jun 3, 2007

Personally, I think there is some highhat somewhere who purposely allows there to still be three different ways to get an RN, so that there would be division and some kind of way to rank ourselves so we'd have a reason to argue amonst ourselves. This way, instead of working together and figuring out how we can improve out nurse patient ratios, wages, and other issues, we spend our time bickering about nurse aide duties, LPN's, and the whole degree debate.
Really good plan.
Divided we fall.

Huh, good point..I'm always receptive to a good conspiracy theory! I think you are right on the money.

SmilingBluEyes · Jun 4, 2007

How about this:

Instead of denigrating anyone's education choice, we just do what works for us, increasing our educational levels, as need/desires arise---- and quit the jealous infighting and backbiting up and down the "ranks"? There is room for us all at the proverbial nursing table!

To do THAT would be a nice change.

Dolce, RN · Jun 4, 2007

I have an ADN and then pursued the RN-BSN track at a four-year college. I can say that the BSN program offered little extra clinical experience beyond what my ADN program had already provided. However, precious little as it was, it is still extra beyond my ADN. So for someone to say that having a BSN=less clinical experience doesn't make sense to me.

I wish every nurse had a bachelor's degree not because I think it makes them smarter or a better clinical nurse, but because it includes the management/legal/leadership/research/statistics training that is so important to our changing healthcare environment. We as nurses are the largest of all healthcare professions, yet we are also the least educated. Social workers have their MSW. PTs have their master's degree. RPhs now are receiving their doctorates. The majority of nurses do not even have a bachelor's degree. And then we wonder why we don't get any respect.

mstar59 · Jun 6, 2007

I am in a BSN program. My med/surg instructor this year (who also teaches at the JC that has an ADN) told us that we were getting a better education than the student nurses at the JC she teaches at because we are taught more critical thinking skills. Some one argued that those at the JC get more clinical time so have more hands on experience. She said you can teach a monkey to do technical skills. That doing I.V.s, and the such, are things you can learn with practice (although we ARE getting this stuff in clinical so I am not sure what the concern is) she said that the critical thinking skills are more important. I am not saying that one is better than the other. This is just what my teacher told me and something some one said reminded me of it.
You say that you are tired of BSN nurses on here saying they should make more or that they are better or whatever. Well I am tired of ADN nurses discrediting my education, saying I am wasting my time or that I am no more deserving of a quarter more an hour, or that ADN nurses have better technical skills or that WHATEVER. A nurse is a nurse is a nurse. I am tired of the bickering. When I was medical assisting no one said, I am better because I have an AS in medical assisting and you only have a certificate of competion. I do not understand the bickerng that goes on between nurses. My class gets along great, although I see the upper classes argue like cats and dogs, and I had a bad clinical experience this year (of which if I was nasty could blame say that it was because a majority of them were ADN nurses and they felt threatened, this were just nastyunhappy people, so sad)
I could argue that BSN nurses are better simply because at my school you are chosen by grades, all of us that got in this year all had all As in our pre-requs with high overall GPAs. And it is a holistic program so we are not all just brains with no bedside mannor. The JC puts names into a hat, requiring only to pass pre-requs with a C. No one has failed out of my class. My friend who is at the JC said at least 4 have already failed out of his. The talk use to be that the JC turned out better nurses, but now that they are using the lotto system, our school is in favor. HOWEVER, I am not saying one is better than the other. Just pointing out that any side can make an argument. I am not getting my BSN because I think it is better. If I wanted to be a bed side nurse I would get my ASN, so much quicker and you learn the same skills as a BSN and the pay is the same. But I want to get my masters and work as a practitioner. But there are definitely perks to having a BSN vs an ASN; and I don't mean money; that is not why I am going into this anyway!
Don' bash me I am just throwing ideas out there. I think both sides are great and that if nurses do not learn how to come together instead of tear eachother appart we are all going to be in a world of hurt. I am appauled. period.

I don't know where you're from, but where I am, it is as difficult to get in an ADN program as a BSN program. After 10 years in nursing with an ADN - 7 in the ED and 3 in Utilization Management; my education has not been lacking at all. Of course, I was 37 when I graduated from my college (which had 100% pass rate for the same boards that the BSN students took), and had lots of life experience to increase my knowledge base. I work in Healthcare Infomatics right now, and would enjoy getting a bachelors degree in that field, but it would not make any difference in the quality of nursing care I give, or the knowledge that I am continually seeking. It is more a matter of attitude - whatever your degree, you never "know it all" - things are new and changing, and we must keep up with those changes or fall behind. No matter where you went to school, or what your degree is. I earn the respect of the professionals I work with because I know what I'm talking about, I research everything I can, and I can do the job I was hired to do. Also, in some states, you have to be 21 to sit for the NCLEX - that takes care of those who are too young physically, but does nothing for the immature.

shanyone · Jun 6, 2007

FAKEBEE ROCKS!!! You said it all and I could say it no better.

As a bedside ICU/CVICU nurse for 12 years I have never asked my
coworkers about their credentialing. My years in the Army taught me to judge people on their performance, not their rank, their educational status, their
appearance or their hair color,etc. The bottom line is that I could care less if you are BSN,ADN, Diploma, work release or home schooled. All I care about is that you are safe,competent, a team player, and an Atlanta Braves fan. Well, actually 3 out of those 4 are mandatory. There's a reason we're called a health care team-our strengths and weaknesses balance themselves out collectively so we can do the impossible on a routine basis. Give everyone the benefit of the doubt until there is no doubt. Why make a tough job harder! :balloons:

kstec, LPN · Jun 6, 2007

shanyone if everyone had your attitude, nursing would be a better area to work in. I say that because I am a LPN and am ranked with the lowest of the low according to the more educated and it really hurts. If we were all just allowed to work within our own scope of practice instead of segregated as good, better and the best as far as education I wouldn't be made to feel so damn incompetent sometimes because of my credentials. Keep passing your good attitude on and maybe someday we will all be considered equal because we are all just trying to contribute to the healthcare system in one way or another.

SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN · Jun 6, 2007

The majority of nurses do not even have a bachelor's degree. And then we wonder why we don't get any respect.

It has nothing to do with educational level. It's because it's a "girl's" job.

As to respect, the general populace adores a nurse. It's really money we're talking about, not respect.

And as to money, it's a girl's job. And we all know that we're just earning pin money, right?*

*(In case anyone is dense, this is sarcasm.)

MrsMommaRN · Jun 7, 2007

the bottom line is that i could care less if you are bsn,adn, diploma, work release or home schooled.

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

i love it!the sad thing is this argument bsn vs adn vs lpn rears its ugly head every few monther here.

as a recent graduate of and aas rn program i am well aware that there are those out there regardless of degree or pedigree that have more experience than me. i am more than willing to accept help or ideas from those people. if it is jeopardizing my patient safety then maybe i will question it. as long as the information they are willing to share will help me grow as a professional i don't care what their credentials are.

RNGrad2006 · Jun 7, 2007

I am in a BSN program. My med/surg instructor this year (who also teaches at the JC that has an ADN) told us that we were getting a better education than the student nurses at the JC she teaches at because we are taught more critical thinking skills. Some one argued that those at the JC get more clinical time so have more hands on experience. She said you can teach a monkey to do technical skills. That doing I.V.s, and the such, are things you can learn with practice (although we ARE getting this stuff in clinical so I am not sure what the concern is) she said that the critical thinking skills are more important. I am not saying that one is better than the other. This is just what my teacher told me and something some one said reminded me of it.
You say that you are tired of BSN nurses on here saying they should make more or that they are better or whatever. Well I am tired of ADN nurses discrediting my education, saying I am wasting my time or that I am no more deserving of a quarter more an hour, or that ADN nurses have better technical skills or that WHATEVER. A nurse is a nurse is a nurse. I am tired of the bickering. When I was medical assisting no one said, I am better because I have an AS in medical assisting and you only have a certificate of competion. I do not understand the bickerng that goes on between nurses. My class gets along great, although I see the upper classes argue like cats and dogs, and I had a bad clinical experience this year (of which if I was nasty could blame say that it was because a majority of them were ADN nurses and they felt threatened, this were just nastyunhappy people, so sad)
I could argue that BSN nurses are better simply because at my school you are chosen by grades, all of us that got in this year all had all As in our pre-requs with high overall GPAs. And it is a holistic program so we are not all just brains with no bedside mannor. The JC puts names into a hat, requiring only to pass pre-requs with a C. No one has failed out of my class. My friend who is at the JC said at least 4 have already failed out of his. The talk use to be that the JC turned out better nurses, but now that they are using the lotto system, our school is in favor. HOWEVER, I am not saying one is better than the other. Just pointing out that any side can make an argument. I am not getting my BSN because I think it is better. If I wanted to be a bed side nurse I would get my ASN, so much quicker and you learn the same skills as a BSN and the pay is the same. But I want to get my masters and work as a practitioner. But there are definitely perks to having a BSN vs an ASN; and I don't mean money; that is not why I am going into this anyway!
Don' bash me I am just throwing ideas out there. I think both sides are great and that if nurses do not learn how to come together instead of tear eachother appart we are all going to be in a world of hurt. I am appauled. period.

Getting an ASN is not THAT quick. We spend two solid years in school + more pre-reqs to get into the program so it is closer to three years. And by the way I had a BSN student look at me all shocked and said, "What ADN's take the same NCLEX that BSN's do..." I was a little stunned and did not know what to say. As if she thought ADN's were incompetent to practice at the same level. Statistically ADN's have higher pass scores on NCLEX than BSN's do and I don't think you can ever say across the board that BSN's have better critical thinking skills than ADN's. My experience has been it is very individual. I am currently in an RN to BSN program and I do see its value but by the time I will be finished I definitely will have spent more time in school than a traditional BSN program and certainly more than any accelerated BSN program.

Smackdown · Jun 7, 2007

Getting an ASN is not THAT quick. We spend two solid years in school + more pre-reqs to get into the program so it is closer to three years. And by the way I had a BSN student look at me all shocked and said, "What ADN's take the same NCLEX that BSN's do..." I was a little stunned and did not know what to say. As if she thought ADN's were incompetent to practice at the same level. Statistically ADN's have higher pass scores on NCLEX than BSN's do and I don't think you can ever say across the board that BSN's have better critical thinking skills than ADN's. My experience has been it is very individual. I am currently in an RN to BSN program and I do see its value but by the time I will be finished I definitely will have spent more time in school than a traditional BSN program and certainly more than any accelerated BSN program.

I would love to see these statistics that claim that ADN's have higher nclex pass rates than BSN's. I find that really suprising. Please share them with us?