BSN does not mean better... Sometimes education is overrated!

WolfpackRed · Jun 9, 2007

There are, but others often use these numbers when they determine their choice in program. I know that they must also balance their personal situation as well.

jjjoy, LPN · Jun 9, 2007

I was just a bit stunned by a BSN student who told me that ADN's would be obsolete down the road, and she was shocked we all took the same exam etc...
The only reason I brought up the difference in pass rates in the first place is that some BSN students think they are volumes ahead of ADN's when it comes to critical thinking and I don't think that is automatic for each person. Some are better than others no matter their educational background.

Keep in mind that if a BSN-prepared nurse says or implies that BSN is a "superior" education, they might have explicitly been taught that. If that's the case, they need gentle education as to what is involved in other nursing education paths. Why gentle? Because you will be challenging something that an instructor told them and at that point it's just your word against their instructor. It will take time for the new grad to be able to make a judgement for themselves on it.

I DID have nursing instructors explicitly say that the BSN program taught more critical thinking and that BSNs would soon be the entry to practice. And I WAS surprised at to find out that ADNs covered the SAME material as BSN students in regard to most aspects of nursing. I didn't even realize that our test questions were specifically written to reflect NCLEX questions as I didn't start thinking about the NCLEX until just before graduation. I was also surprised that a new RN could be oriented by an LPN. In school we always only worked witih RNs so I didn't realize the degree to which LPNs were utilized and worked independently. We were told that we might work with LPNs and that we'd responsible for delegation but that's about it.

Unless they've had experience in nursing, the students are reliant upon their schools to inform them of the state of their profession and not all nursing schools do that. Is it right? No. But getting offended at a misinformed comment doesn't help correct the misinformation.

Kim O'Therapy, BSN, RN · Jun 9, 2007

Just a personal note. I started out in an ADN program and have transferred into a BSN program instead. I did not transfer because I thought I'd get a "better" education, get paid more, etc. I transferred to the BSN program because I've always wanted to earn a college degree. Nothing else. I will be the first in my family to graduate from college, and as you can tell by my age, I did not want to have to go back later. :lol2: I think education is a personal thing. No matter where you go, you're education is a good as the student. I don't think one is better than the other. Personally, I wish they still had more diploma programs. Certainly, hands-on training is the best way to go. JMHO

luvpeplrn · Jun 10, 2007

I have my BSN, I did this for myself, as a kind of insurance, in case it would be required someday. I am glad that I earned my BSN, and I do feel that I received a good education and that I am a well-rounded nurse because of it. I too have seen some BSN nurses that do not deserve the title, but as for me I feel that I try to use what I have learned both from school and work experience to provide quality patient care, and always advocate for the most important issue at hand, THE PATIENT!!!! That is what is most important!!!

RNGrad2006 · Jun 10, 2007

Yes, I see what you are stating and did not intend to miss quote you, however my question remains: how you can state that BSN programs are doing a "better job of preparing" students when the data shows, since 1998, that pass rates have been so close?

You are totally misunderstanding me. I have been told by other BSN students that they don't focus much on NCLEX in a BSN program. I am not saying that BSN programs prepare their students better than ADN...quite the opposite. I was just stating that BSN programs are preparing BSN students for NCLEX better than they had done in previous years. I think ADN instructors have always done an excellent job of assisting students with the realities of nursing and NCLEX in general. And BSN programs now that they are a little bit more common than they used to be are also starting to address it as well. The ONLY reason I brought up the whole pass rate is that some BSN students think they are better critical thinkers than ADN's and the scores on NCLEX don't reflect that at all.

Multicollinearity, BSN, RN · Jun 10, 2007

Just a personal note. I started out in an ADN program and have transferred into a BSN program instead. I did not transfer because I thought I'd get a "better" education get paid more, etc. I transferred to the BSN program because I've always wanted to earn a college degree. Nothing else. I will be the first in my family to graduate from college, and as you can tell by my age, I did not want to have to go back later. I think education is a personal thing. No matter where you go, you're education is a good as the student. I don't think one is better than the other. Personally, I wish they still had more diploma programs. Certainly, hands-on training is the best way to go. JMHO[/quote']
Your post reminds me so much of myself! I started out in school with the plan of getting an ADN. Then, things changed. I love college so much that I switched my plans to pre-BSN. Sometimes I am glad that the ADN program in my city is backed up 3 years. It forced me to think BSN!
I want a bachelors degree very badly, besides the nursing education part of the degree. I, too, will be the first in my family to get a bachelor's degree. Agree about the age thing, also! I don't want to go back! Anyway, your post really resonated with me.

Freedom42 · Jun 10, 2007

okay so here's my point.
i have been reading several things on here about "i have my bsn so therefore i should make more money..blah, blah, blah" frankly i am sick of hearing it. let me give you a little background on me before i finish what i started.
i started out as an stna (cna) about 8 years ago. then i went and got my lpn. now i am getting my adn and i will graduate in may 2008. once i get my adn i am planning on going back and getting my bsn... just because you have more education does not mean that you are better and should be paid more. honestly, bsn is a choice. it is a choice that i want to make. why would an employer pay a bsn all this money when they could pay an adn or a diploma rn less money for the same job? therefore...around the same pay for both.

a question for the op: if education is sometimes overrated, why do you plan to pursue your bsn? yes, i know it's a choice. but why are you pursuing it if adns and bsns do the same job?

and have you considered that you are supporting hospitals' efforts to suppress wages -- and therefore, your future bsn pay check -- when you argue that adns and bsns should make the same amount of money? after all, if hospitals paid nurses based on their levels of education, there would be a lot more incentive for nurses to pursue bsns and master's degrees, wouldn't there?

i agree that education can't be equated with performance (george w. bush did go to yale). but as long as hospitals are allowed to lump bsns and adns in the same job category, wages will remain suppressed. that's why it's in our best interest for educational credentials to be a factor in compensation. i believe it's tweety's hospital that offers skill-based pay -- acquire a new skill or certification, and your pay will go up. that's an incentive, and that's fair.

RNGrad2006 · Jun 10, 2007

Keep in mind that if a BSN-prepared nurse says or implies that BSN is a "superior" education, they might have explicitly been taught that. If that's the case, they need gentle education as to what is involved in other nursing education paths. Why gentle? Because you will be challenging something that an instructor told them and at that point it's just your word against their instructor. It will take time for the new grad to be able to make a judgement for themselves on it.
I DID have nursing instructors explicitly say that the BSN program taught more critical thinking and that BSNs would soon be the entry to practice. And I WAS surprised at to find out that ADNs covered the SAME material as BSN students in regard to most aspects of nursing. I didn't even realize that our test questions were specifically written to reflect NCLEX questions as I didn't start thinking about the NCLEX until just before graduation. I was also surprised that a new RN could be oriented by an LPN. In school we always only worked witih RNs so I didn't realize the degree to which LPNs were utilized and worked independently. We were told that we might work with LPNs and that we'd responsible for delegation but that's about it.
Unless they've had experience in nursing, the students are reliant upon their schools to inform them of the state of their profession and not all nursing schools do that. Is it right? No. But getting offended at a misinformed comment doesn't help correct the misinformation.

I think you are right but I still think it is rude to make such a comment to a nurse who is taking the time on a busy shift to take on their usual patient load as well as a student knowing full well the nurse they are making the comment to is at the ADN level. I know what you are saying. I started as an LPN with no intention of stopping there but our ADN RN instructors were very negative of LPN's and basically told us that we wouldn't make it as RN's since RN programs are so superior to LPN programs. I did not agree with that but I went into this as an older student and as a mature student I didn't believe everything our instructors told us. But I think you are right those with no prior experience may be very influenced by what they are told. I had the benefit of working in healthcare for many years before studying nursing. However, the longer I study the more I feel I have to learn. I recently started a RN to BSN program. I am glad for the opportunity to continue on with my education with employer tuition support for a change. It is a sacrifice for my family as it takes time away from them but I also will be the first person in my family to get a bachelors degree. I am also lucky to have a husband who supports me 100%. I couldn't do it without him.

shodobe · Jun 10, 2007

Bleah, must we continue with this divisive and unproductive argument?

Totally agree!!! This is the same crap that gets rehashed over and over. My point is get over it! Who really cares about this argument. Good for those who go on for higher education, good for those who like to stay in their comfortable surroundings.

firstyearstudent · Jun 10, 2007

I think that BSN should be the entry level for nursing. Why? Because the ADN is not really a credential that is indicative of the hard work that goes into a nursing education. Let's make sure all nurses get their due.

This is a difficult discipline but the public thinks it's a cakewalk because it's a two year degree. I got a four year degree (unrelated) before getting my ADN and all I could think was, what a rip off! The average ADN grad does more work for his or her degree than the average master's student in most other professions. Absolutely. Also, most ADN grads now take about a year of preparation if they're starting out of high school. Why not have them do another year and get more respect?

Personally, I feel ripped off. New programs are cropping up to get master's degrees in nursing without a BSN (just a prior bachelor's). I could have gotten a master's degree in about the same amount of time and all I have is an ADN for my hard work.

Why is there all this resistance about making a BSN the entry. The nurses who are already practicing would be grandfathered and those nurses would also increase in prestige. No one would take anything from anyone. It's about looking to the future.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Jun 10, 2007

I think that BSN should be the entry level for nursing. Why? Because the ADN is not really a credential that is indicative of the hard work that goes into a nursing education. Let's make sure all nurses get their due.

I agree and can understand the feellings of being ripped off. ADN programs have added so many "pre-reqs" and other courses that the end result seems a bit more than "just an ADN" that takes only two years. Spending over three years getting an ADN seems insulting.

firstyearstudent · Jun 10, 2007

I agree and can understand the feellings of being ripped off. ADN programs have added so many "pre-reqs" and other courses that the end result seems a bit more than "just an ADN" that takes only two years. Spending over three years getting an ADN seems insulting.

And they're VERY HARD years. You know, there are plenty of bachelor's degree you can get in three years with approximately the same amount of work (although perhaps not credit hours).