BSN does not mean better... Sometimes education is overrated!

[lovegoddess1977]

okay so here's my point.

i have been reading several things on here about "i have my bsn so therefore i should make more money..blah, blah, blah" frankly i am sick of hearing it. let me give you a little background on me before i finish what i started.

i started out as an stna (cna) about 8 years ago. then i went and got my lpn. now i am getting my adn and i will graduate in may 2008. once i get my adn i am planning on going back and getting my bsn.

now let me say that i have met many bsn nurses who could not even figure out how to empty a foley drainage bag. they deemed that as "aide work". they also thought that they were better than us, and that we should bow down to them. also, i have met many bsn nurses who were so knowledgeable about everything and were excellent nurses. bedside manner was fantastic.

in general..i have met good nurses and bad nurses. that includes lpn's, bsn's and adn's. just because you have more education does not mean that you are better and should be paid more. honestly, bsn is a choice. it is a choice that i want to make. why would an employer pay a bsn all this money when they could pay an adn or a diploma rn less money for the same job? therefore...around the same pay for both. i just get sick and tired of people saying...i am better than you because i went to school for one year longer or two years or whatever. education is very important .....but its not everything when it comes to this debate. i met this master's degree nurse and she was sooooo stupid. i couldn't believe that she managed to get her degree. i knew this lpn who was smarter than any nurse i have ever met....rn's included. and vice versa.

my point: what makes a good nurse is personality, common sense and what you do with the knowledge that you possess.:balloons:

[WolfpackRed]

I would love to see these statistics that claim that ADN's have higher nclex pass rates than BSN's. I find that really suprising. Please share them with us?

According to NCSBN: https://www.ncsbn.org/1237.htm

Pass rates data collected show that national yearly totals in 2006 and first quarter 2007 BSN programs had higher NCLEX pass rates than ADN/ASN programs. However from 2003-2005 ADN/ASN programs held a higher pass rate than BSN programs. In 2002 the total were equal and in 2001 BSN > ADN. Additionally, during this same time, Diploma program had equal or higher pass rates than either ADN or BSN.

[Smackdown]

According to NCSBN: https://www.ncsbn.org/1237.htm

Pass rates data collected show that national yearly totals in 2006 and first quarter 2007 BSN programs had higher NCLEX pass rates than ADN/ASN programs. However from 2003-2005 ADN/ASN programs held a higher pass rate than BSN programs. In 2002 the total were equal and in 2001 BSN > ADN. Additionally, during this same time, Diploma program had equal or higher pass rates than either ADN or BSN.

The percentages are so close (within 1%) that it seems pretty insignificant to me. Thanks for the link :)

[decartes]

Just chiming in...getting an education is never over rated.

[RNGrad2006]

The percentages are so close (within 1%) that it seems pretty insignificant to me. Thanks for the link :)

The only point I was trying to make is that the comment a BSN student who was soon to graduate made was rather inappropriate. Inferring that they should have a separate exam for BSN grads since they are ever so much better critical thinkers. It seems as BSN programs are becoming more common the BSN NCLEX pass rate are ever so slightly above ADN's (less than 1% and so far in 2007 0.1%). I think the BSN programs are doing a better job of preparing their students for NCLEX than they have in the past. Bottom line is that NCLEX is supposed to test critical thinking skills and ADN students are holding their own. On my floor the only student who has failed NCLEX (now twice) is a BSN graduate. I am in a post RN program but do feel ADN programs put out some great RN's as well. I think it does vary school to school though. The school I went to has an excellent reputation and was very challenging.

[msbrady]

I am a Diploma RN with 36 years of experience. I would not have traded my career for anything else. It has provided me with a wide sort of varied experiences, including ER, OR, Long-term care, Home care, and Ambulatory. The one advantage that I feel I had during my education, is that I had 3 full days/week of "hands-on" nursing right from the get-go. I definitely had a good idea of what the profession was all about from the beginning. Most Diploma RN's that I know say that they lost about half of their class before graduation. I don't think that's a bad thing, because the people who were not cut out to be nurses got out before they had committed a great deal of time and money. Most of the remaining nurses continued in nursing, and got their hands dirty, for 20 - 30 years. I do feel that both the AD and BSN programs do not provide enough "hands-on" experiences for the students during the course of study. I do feel that both programs provide for a more rounded education, but feel that, if these same students were allowed to actually touch patients throughout their experience, then the real world would not be as much of a shock, and the nursing community would be better able to retain new graduates. I also agree that, no matter what "title" RNs or LPNs have, the person's heart and conscience are what makes them truly committed, and willing to fight for patients' rights and safety. Nursing is not an easy road to follow, and we all must stay committed and united in order survive and excel!

[CMCRN]

In my experience education is like seniority - it is only overated to those who do not have it.

:yeahthat:

[fleur-de-lis, BSN, RN]

You normally get paid more for additional year's experience, so isn't it logical that you would get paid more for additional year's education?

That said, the degree does not make the nurse - it is more about how you practice nursing than it is the initials after your name.

[suzy253, RN]

According to NCSBN: https://www.ncsbn.org/1237.htm

Additionally, during this same time, Diploma program had equal or higher pass rates than either ADN or BSN.

Thank you!

[WolfpackRed]

The only point I was trying to make is that the comment a BSN student who was soon to graduate made was rather inappropriate. Inferring that they should have a separate exam for BSN grads since they are ever so much better critical thinkers. It seems as BSN programs are becoming more common the BSN NCLEX pass rate are ever so slightly above ADN's (less than 1% and so far in 2007 0.1%). I think the BSN programs are doing a better job of preparing their students for NCLEX than they have in the past. Bottom line is that NCLEX is supposed to test critical thinking skills and ADN students are holding their own. On my floor the only student who has failed NCLEX (now twice) is a BSN graduate. I am in a post RN program but do feel ADN programs put out some great RN's as well. I think it does vary school to school though. The school I went to has an excellent reputation and was very challenging.

First, if you look at the trends over the last six full years, ADN and BSN programs have never been seperated by more than a full percentage point. Additionally, when one program is down, the other follows. I do not feel that it is correct to say that BSN programs are doing a better job education thier students.

Also, if a nurse wants to become certified through the ANA, they do have different exams based on one's education level. I do not know how other organizations set up their credentialing tests, and I will not speak to those.

[RNGrad2006]

First, if you look at the trends over the last six full years, ADN and BSN programs have never been seperated by more than a full percentage point. Additionally, when one program is down, the other follows. I do not feel that it is correct to say that BSN programs are doing a better job education thier students.

Also, if a nurse wants to become certified through the ANA, they do have different exams based on one's education level. I do not know how other organizations set up their credentialing tests, and I will not speak to those.

If you look at what I stated. I did not say BSN programs are doing a better job of educating their students. I said they are doing a better job of preparing students for NCLEX than they had in the past. I have heard from BSN students that they focus so much on nursing theory, management etc...but bottom line is you still have to pass NCLEX to get a licence. I am also a ADN grad and think both programs are good. I don't have a bias either way. I am still glad I went ADN route first. I was just a bit stunned by a BSN student who told me that ADN's would be obsolete down the road, and she was shocked we all took the same exam etc... It kind of took me back a bit since I didn't very much appreciate looked down upon. When you have a student to work with it does slow you down and then to be looked down upon with such arrogant statements did not sit well with me. The only reason I brought up the difference in pass rates in the first place is that some BSN students think they are volumes ahead of ADN's when it comes to critical thinking and I don't think that is automatic for each person. Some are better than others no matter their educational background.

[WolfpackRed]

Yes, I see what you are stating and did not intend to miss quote you, however my question remains: how you can state that BSN programs are doing a "better job of preparing" students when the data shows, since 1998, that pass rates have been so close?

[KellNY, RN]

Wolf, would you not agree that there is more to proof of education than passing rates? Especially since NCLEX is pass/fail?