We were discussing the Disneryland measles outbreak at work, and I was appalled to find some of my co-workers refuse to vaccinate their kids. They (grudgingly) receive the vaccines they need to remain employed, but doubt their safety/necessity for their kids.
I must say, I am absolutley stunned. How can one be a nurse and deny science?
As a nurse, you should darn well know what the scientific method entails and what phrases such as "evidence based" and "peer reviewed" mean.
I have to say, I have lost most of my respect for the nurses and mistrust their judgement; after all, if they deny science, on what premise are they basing their practices?
I used to think the arguments re the difference between ADN and BSN were founded only on the research/leadership classes. I really had no idea that the programs didn't have the same science requirements.
And while I don't remember all of my chem all those years ago, someone could really school me right now, I'd still had to be able to pass college level org and non org chem. I have seen some ASN grads that tarnish the degree (and I'm sure it works for the BSN's as well) but that really would explain it for the few I have wondered about.
I'm an LPN, pursuing my BSN, no chemistry course required (though I chose to take it in high school over 20 years ago). I have the good sense to vaccinate both my self and my child...vaccines do not cause autism. There is no college level chemistry course needed to understand that. Plus diseases can be deadly. I know parents will say that they have the right to choose their child's medical care, but do they really have the right to chose to allow their child to contract a preventable illness and spread it to everyone else as evidenced with the measles outbreak? My husband had the measles as a child. He almost died.
I'm not stupid. I went to college. I took science classes. So I know about microbiology, infection control, anatomy, physiology, and all that. I am fully aware that the scientific method – including use of a control group, randomization, double-blind studies, and the peer review method – is the best tool we humans have of unlocking the secrets of the natural world to find ways of curing disease.
It seems to have completely escaped a couple of posters that when we talk about properly vetted "data," this is what we are referring to. "Data" does not consist of a link to a web site. It does not consist of anecdotes about elderly relatives who survived to old age without the help of modern medicine. It does not consist of advertisements for upcoming speeches to be given by discredited physicians or researchers, actresses, or other unqualified individuals.
Credible "data" involves research which has been conducted according to an established consensus of what constitutes proper protocol. Additionally, the research must be replicated multiple times by other studies which have ALSO been conducted ethically and according to proper protocol.
Credible "data" can also involve statistics, but these must be gathered from credible sources, must not omit relevant data which might not reflect the desired point of view, and must be open to scrutiny of the methods used to gather it and how those statistics were interpreted.
Yes, please don't hang the children. It's not very nice and according to my experiences watching the walking dead, it's utterly heartbreaking having to take them down a second time after they reanimate.
It seems to have completely escaped a couple of posters that when we talk about properly vetted "data," this is what we are referring to. "Data" does not consist of a link to a web site. It does not consist of anecdotes about elderly relatives who survived to old age without the help of modern medicine. It does not consist of advertisements for upcoming speeches to be given by discredited physicians or researchers, actresses, or other unqualified individuals.
Credible "data" involves research which has been conducted according to an established consensus of what constitutes proper protocol. Additionally, the research must be replicated multiple times by other studies which have ALSO been conducted ethically and according to proper protocol.
Credible "data" can also involve statistics, but these must be gathered from credible sources, must not omit relevant data which might not reflect the desired point of view, and must be open to scrutiny of the methods used to gather it and how those statistics were interpreted.
Seems not everyone understands this.
You know how everyone has pet peeves, words or phrases that people use that drive other people nuts?
Funny thing about this thread is that for me, "research" as in "I've done my research" has long been one of mine! Can't tell you the number of times I've had friends, relatives....heck, strangers near enough on a park bench for chatter....say "oh, I know all about that, before I made my decision to XX, I did plenty of research". Really? You are a scientist who conducted a laboratory study? You gathered groups of participants into clusters for blind, double-blind results? You set up control groups, factored in placebo responses? You took months or even years to collect, analyze, and finally interpret the data into a conclusion, all of which you repeated several times to prove validity? MY, you are busy! And here I just thought you were a stay-at-home Mom who surfed the Internet looking for websites that told you blurbs that supported what you already suspected was the truth about whatever you were deciding about!! Who knew you really did all that RESEARCH so you could be sure that skipping Junior's MMR really was a totally ok idea!! Impressive to be sure.
1- I genuinely believe we breed conspiracy theorists the second we tell our kids there is no Santa. That is the first time they realize that an entire country really can be in on the same con together.
2- I'd like to add some humor. Stick it out to verse two. ������
Again, all I can think of in these types of debate is:
1. The Ban Dihydrogen Monoxide campaign.
2. That episode of the Man Show when they got all these people to sign a petition for "Stop Women's Suffrage" because they thought it meant "suffering".
You know how everyone has pet peeves, words or phrases that people use that drive other people nuts?
Funny thing about this thread is that for me, "research" as in "I've done my research" has long been one of mine! Can't tell you the number of times I've had friends, relatives....heck, strangers near enough on a park bench for chatter....say "oh, I know all about that, before I made my decision to XX, I did plenty of research". Really? You are a scientist who conducted a laboratory study? You gathered groups of participants into clusters for blind, double-blind results? You set up control groups, factored in placebo responses? You took months or even years to collect, analyze, and finally interpret the data into a conclusion, all of which you repeated several times to prove validity? MY, you are busy! And here I just thought you were a stay-at-home Mom who surfed the Internet looking for websites that told you blurbs that supported what you already suspected was the truth about whatever you were deciding about!! Who knew you really did all that RESEARCH so you could be sure that skipping Junior's MMR really was a totally ok idea!! Impressive to be sure.
Here is one for you, too:
(Please forgive me for devaluing the thread. 😂)
I had an antivaxer (chiropractor, who claims to be a "doctor", so is more educated and knows more than me and my little BSN) tell me the other day that pertussis is not a deadly disease, and that there are no documented deaths in the US from whooping cough. . . that and his claim that PERTUSSIS has never killed a child (yep, he said that). Wow, how heartbreaking it must be for mothers of babies who caught pertussis to learn their babies died from nothing.
Somehow when I was borne (a long, long time ago), I caught pertussis in the hospital. My mom said it was touch and go for a long time as I was constantly catching infections like pneumonia, and she missed out on the first 4 months of my life. That, of course, I don't remember, but I have always told I had bronchiectasis which only recently has been causing me problems.
I didn't die, but the financial and emotional burdens were tremendous. Anyone who thinks pertussis is a harmless infection should read personal accounts of people who had the disease.
NurseSpeedy, ADN, LPN, RN
1,599 Posts
I'm an LPN, pursuing my BSN, no chemistry course required (though I chose to take it in high school over 20 years ago). I have the good sense to vaccinate both my self and my child...vaccines do not cause autism. There is no college level chemistry course needed to understand that. Plus diseases can be deadly. I know parents will say that they have the right to choose their child's medical care, but do they really have the right to chose to allow their child to contract a preventable illness and spread it to everyone else as evidenced with the measles outbreak? My husband had the measles as a child. He almost died.