We were discussing the Disneryland measles outbreak at work, and I was appalled to find some of my co-workers refuse to vaccinate their kids. They (grudgingly) receive the vaccines they need to remain employed, but doubt their safety/necessity for their kids.
I must say, I am absolutley stunned. How can one be a nurse and deny science?
As a nurse, you should darn well know what the scientific method entails and what phrases such as "evidence based" and "peer reviewed" mean.
I have to say, I have lost most of my respect for the nurses and mistrust their judgement; after all, if they deny science, on what premise are they basing their practices?
The folks where I live are mostly conservative and the vast majority vaccinate. I work hospice but I also work as a school district nurse. The ones who opt out of vaccination are the folks who read Natural News and put essential oils on their feet to cure the "flu".
I was referring to the posted article about conservatives being more likely to decline mandatory (government) anything.
Whatever. It's an endless circle of nothing getting actually talked about (this thread). Except for useful and respectful information being shared by some such as Boston FNP.
Adios, folks! Have fun beating each other over the head with the same arguments over and over and over...
Sent from my iPhone -- blame all errors on spellcheck
Okay, okay... In all seriousness, I am definitely appreciative of contributors like Boston as well. Epidemiology is an area I wish I knew more about, and I love to read up to date information and links that get shared in posts that present more common sense. So, to those of you who have shared, thank you. ☺ï¸
I was referring to the posted article about conservatives being more likely to decline mandatory (government) anything.
Whatever. It's an endless circle of nothing getting actually talked about (this thread). Except for useful and respectful information being shared by some such as Boston FNP.
Adios, folks! Have fun beating each other over the head with the same arguments over and over and over...
Sent from my iPhone -- blame all errors on spellcheck
Ah but there is always a bit of truth in humor or it wouldn't be funny. NSIME says it well and I've been here a long time.
To edmia, no longer on this thread:
If you had any clue of the number of threads of a political ilk on the AN site devolved into the growling, knee-jerk, scathing, spiteful, circular back and forth of the liberal/conservative, Republican vs Democrat arguments, you would understand our eye-rolling, disappointed sighs and groans, and why it ain't just a light little introduction of humor. It felt more like a "Oh, no, here we go AGAIN!" moment. The predictable, disrespectful, obdurate flaying practiced by some is TRULY tedious.
Just so you know......
I am also grateful for the folks who are discussing the reasons behind why vaccinations are safe and effective and why we should be vaccinating our kids and ourselves.
I am also grateful for the humor links/photos to lighten the mood.
I would be interested in knowing how many other health care professions, (PT, OT, Pharmacists, SP), believe that vaccines are harmful and not necessary.
i have not heard of any. If that is the case, it says something about the qualifications of the individuals who become nurses.
To claim to be a health care professional, and to discount the use of vaccines for all of us, but especially children, makes me wonder who we are letting into nursing schools, and how are these individuals passing a licensing exam to practice?
I made myself read through this entire thread (FORTY-FIVE PAGES?!) before responding. And now that I'm here.....I'm just too stunned by the ignorance I've witnessed to be able to formulate a polite and informative response of my own.
Well....almost. No....I'm ready now
I knew that there were certainly RNs who don't have enough understanding of WHY we vaccinate and HOW vaccines work; they frustrate me because they spread fallacies and ultimately harm the general public who have the great misfortune of believing them ("a NURSE told me, so it must be true").
My job as an educator of the general public where vaccinations and communicable diseases are the concern is to give them the REAL and CORRECT information. Not wacky opinions, not pseudo-science, not what some nutjob who runs a vanity press or a wingnut celebrity who looks good on YouTube happens to think. What MATTERS is FACTS based on actual, reproducible EVIDENCE.
I used to think I didn't care what some of these freaks who don't vaccinate their chidren against deadly diseases did with their own kids; now that we can all very plainly see how the REST of us are affected by their paranoid lunacy in the form of rebounds of nearly-erradicated illnesses, I've changed my mind.
It is no longer the freaks keeping their nutty ideas in their own homes....it is that these freaks are spreading disease to OTHERS who don't happen to SHARE in their nutty, lunatic ideology.
And here's a bit of irony: Let's take a look at those parents (probably should say 'mothers', since that's really what we're talking about here, isn't it?) who chose to NOT vaccinate their babies against Measles/Mumps/Rubella because of the (irrational) fear of autism. They didn't want to risk having a special needs child, so....nope, no vaccines for them! And now we're facing the very real threat of children exposed to the debilitating disease of Measles, who if they don't die from it might very well turn out to become special needs children thanks to the known complications of this disease!
So....DON'T vaccinate against a preventable illness because of an unfounded, bogus fear of developing a debilitating condition....but DO allow your kid to GET the disease that causes a real, bonafide debilitating condition. Makes tons of sense to me.
For all those who insist it isn't autism that is scaring them off of vaccinations, but something else....I'm sorry, can't say this any other way, but you are misinformed, misguided, and simply in complete misunderstanding of what we know of science (as relates to vaccines) today. And that's a PARTICULARLY sad state of being when we're talking about medical professionals, NURSES who should at a bare minimum be able to recognize QUACKERY from VERIFIABLE science, EVIDENCE from FAIRY TALES.
We were discussing the Disneryland measles outbreak at work, and I was appalled to find some of my co-workers refuse to vaccinate their kids. They (grudgingly) receive the vaccines they need to remain employed, but doubt their safety/necessity for their kids.
I must say, I am absolutley stunned. How can one be a nurse and deny science?
As a nurse, you should darn well know what the scientific method entails and what phrases such as "evidence based" and "peer reviewed" mean.
I have to say, I have lost most of my respect for the nurses and mistrust their judgement; after all, if they deny science, on what premise are they basing their practices?
Perhaps it's the difference between a BSN and Associates degree? Or possibly age as nursing has become more evidence based recently.
@Safety Coach: check your assumptions. I earned my ASN in 1972, studied basic chemistry, biology and microbiology along with the rest of the Neanderthals and have been well-acquainted with both the scientific method and basic concepts of epidemiology ever since.
Not a BSN in sight.
Stereotyping old nurses as "pre-scientific EBP" and too ignorant to understand herd immunity reflects the same sloppy thinking we criticize in anti-vaxxers.
I am solidly pro-vaccination and believe that people who refuse to vaccinate their children are a danger to themselves and others. Having said that, I'm seeing some unbelievable rudeness on this thread on the part of some pro-vaccination posters. Apparently some people are not able to be eloquent and articulate in their thoughts and resort to sarcasm and jokes at the expense of anti-vaxxers. This is really shameful. What gives you the right to be rude to someone because they are wrong? The worst behavior I see is when two posters make jokes to each other about the anti-vaccine person as if they are not here. If you can't get your thoughts together without being rude, maybe you should leave it to some of the other participants who are posting facts and legitimate rebuttals. I'm really taken aback at the bad manners I'm seeing. It seems like some people wait for threads like these where they are on the side of the majority opinion so they can pile on.
I'm seeing some unbelievable rudeness on this thread on the part of some pro-vaccination posters. Apparently some people are not able to be eloquent and articulate in their thoughts and resort to sarcasm and jokes at the expense of anti-vaxxers. This is really shameful. What gives you the right to be rude to someone because they are wrong?
I think the reason that many of the responses have a markedly low pH is that it's a coping mechanism.
Personally, few people frustrate me as much as "anti-vaxxers". Here's why..
* No amount of sound scientific research and epidemiological data shown to a anti-vaxxer and presented ever so politely and respectfully, will make them change their mind. Ever. This is especially disheartening when dealing with educated healthcare professionals.
* I perceive a significant amount of smugness emanating from some anti-vaxxers.
"I am smarter than you because I look at both sides of the equation. Whereas you're either brainwashed by or bought by Big Pharma".
This is annoying when the truth of the matter is that a supporter of immunization vaccines is a supporter of them entirely because they do have the ability to analyse the available research. Anti-vaxxers in my opinion, do not. They're not open-minded higher-level thinkers in this particular instance, they are simply misinformed.
* If anti-vaxxers were simply wrong and being wrong didn't have any consequences I wouldn't spend much, if any, time in these threads. The thing is though, their misguided beliefs and actions come with a very real and scary consequence. The diseases the vaccines protect against, KILL people. People, many of them children, will DIE. I think that people who choose not to vaccinate (including their children) are making a dangerous choice that affects the health of others as well as themselves. The stakes are high. So if I come off as somewhat less than super-polite, the reason is mostly frustration.
I had a similar moment of frustration a while back when a oncology patient's relative tried to convince my patient that homeopathic "medication" is every bit as effective at combating cancer as Antimetabolites and Mitotic inhibitors, just without the side effects Well, duh... Since there's no active substance in the homeopathic "med" you won't have any side effects, but you sure won't have any effect on cancer cells either.
That was slightly off-topic, but the reason for my frustration is the common denominator. People rejecting science in favor of their own subjective, unscientific personal beliefs when this clearly has an impact on the well-being of others.
As nurses we have an obligation to only recommend/advocate for scientifically sound interventions/treatments. Denying science and adversely affecting the health of our patients isn't acceptable. I don't understand how nurses who don't believe what science tells us manage to reconcile this with the care they provide to their patients. How does an "anti-vaxxer" answer a parent or patient who inquires about vaccines?
I can be blunt but I actually make an effort not to be rude. If I've been rude to anyone
I'm an RN on a Med/Surg unit. When someone comes in with certain symptoms, we implement various precaution measures. Does it make you feel powerful to speak to me with disrespect? I get that impression. I have worked in this setting for almost 2 years, and have not been sick except for a cold once. It's because I wash my hands, wear proper precautions etc. I think some nurses have a lot to work on in the hand-washing area. They eat at the desk, touch the keyboard, then their mouths, never a thought to what they are doing.
So, first let's take a moment to clarify your claim of being an RN. Just because you change your username does not cancel out your previous posts. Just in 2012 you were struggling to pass the TEAS test in order to enter LPN school. You failed that at least once it looks like. And surprisingly you were struggling with science-so surprising to me with your great understanding of science and vaccines :eye roll:
Then just this past November you were eagerly awaiting to see if you were accepted to nursing school. I think an ASN program? So it's pretty miraculous that just a mere 3 months later you are an RN working on a meg-surg unit diligently providing nursing care from 3 feet away!
Oh and around this point you were looking to enter a holistic path because darn-regular nursing, you know the kind that involves evidence and science, just isn't right for you!!
Now continue to spew your "facts" about vaccines. How can we trust someone's facts who can't even tell us the truth about who he/she is?
NSIME says it well and I've been here a long time. 
Well, duh... Since there's no active substance in the homeopathic "med" you won't have any side effects, but you sure won't have any effect on cancer cells either.
:eye roll:
ixchel
4,547 Posts
Mmmmmm...... Foot massage..........😋