Another reason unions suck!

[Ruger8mm]

Trying to get a vacation as a new RN under a union regime is challenging at best. It's all seniority based. So the senior RNs can basically come and go as they choose. But that means the rest of us cannot be off (even though we don't cover each other or know each other's job). Also the silly union made a rule that managers cannot approve vacations to far out. So if someone knows they want a certain week 2 years from now, they cannot secure it and start booking flights or whatever. It's irritating at best.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

Trying to get a vacation as a new RN under a union regime is challenging at best. It's all seniority based. So the senior RNs can basically come and go as they choose. But that means the rest of us cannot be off (even though we don't cover each other or know each other's job). Also the silly union made a rule that managers cannot approve vacations to far out. So if someone knows they want a certain week 2 years from now, they cannot secure it and start booking flights or whatever. It's irritating at best.

Hmmm, so what you are saying is that in your union hospital vacations are handled exactly like they are in every non-union hospital I have ever worked at.

Other than seniority based, what are the other common ways that vacation time is given at non union hospitals that you would like to see implemented?

[TriciaJ, RN]

I do no think unions are necessary. I believe RNs can sit down with their managers and come to an amicable solution. As a profession, communication, negotiation and collaboration is key. I believe unions create very strict rules that prevent the creation of creative problem solving and restrict the maneuvering room required to solve these types of workplace issues.

You can sit down with your manager all you want. But if you've had some managers like the ones I've had, good luck. All BS and doublespeak.

Unions do NOT create rules. They negotiate a contract with input from their members. So if you don't like the way vacation time is allotted, or anything else that's in your contract, let it be known next negotiation time. If most of your colleagues feel the same way, maybe the next contract will have something different.

I've mentioned this before: managers love to create hate and discontent and blame the union. Please familiarize yourself with your contract.

[rnnluvnit2006]

This is in response to your vacation, not the union and rules etc

It is often said...it is much easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission.

I know lots of nurses who ask for time off, get denied, and then call in sick. Its pretty stupid on the employer's part since all that does is render a unit short...the person asking for time off is planning ahead..

I say what's the worst they can do? Take your birthday away?? I think not.

Enjoy your trip!

[brandy1017, ASN, RN]

Then why on earth would you work in a unionized facility? If you disagree with unions, it makes no sense to even apply for a job there.

Probably because it has better pay, benefits and staffing ratios. A strong union is a wonderful thing to have! Look at the National Nurses United and all they have accomplished both in CA and now expanding across the country. I wish we had them at my employer!

So many people have a knee jerk reaction to unions and they blame them and claim they protect people who don't do their job. I don't believe that is true. I think they do provide a level playing field and can help protect jobs, pay, benefits and staffing ratios if they are strong and effective! I read about people being fired all the time and many times they had wonderful glowing reviews up until they were bounced out. That does not sound like a problem worker, but without a union you can be fired at any time for any reason or no reason! The new manager may not like you or may want to give your job to a friend or family member and without a union there is nothing to protect you! Also older workers are usually targeted for layoffs these days and it is all about the money as corporate health care would rather staff with all new grads at the bottom of the pay scale if they could. Money trumps all in corporate healthcare! Unions at least can fight these egregious actions by the corporate big wigs!

[elkpark]

This is in response to your vacation, not the union and rules etc

It is often said...it is much easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission.

I know lots of nurses who ask for time off, get denied, and then call in sick.

I've seen people do that, too. And I've seen their bosses, while they can't fire them for that specifically, start looking v. carefully for reasons that they can fire them, and get rid of them the first chance they get.

[martymoose, BSN, RN]

That is about the most beautiful thing I've read in a long time.

That's basically what I told my manager. "I've booked the trip, organized with my wife's schedule and made the deposit. I purposely picked a week where there won't be others asking for holiday time off. I have every intention of going. You have 18 months notice"

Where I am, non union, you will not have a job when you come back if you do that. I have seen it happen.

They don't care if you bought tickets, I guess they feel that your problem.

[martymoose, BSN, RN]

As far as I know, from experience of being union for 18 years ( different occupation) the only people who hate the union are those with out seniority. Thats why it's called seniority.

The benefits outweigh the risks, even if there is some corruption.

Where I am there are no nurse unions. So we get pooped on ( literally )everyday. No one to even complain to . Don't like it, then leave is what we are usually told.

[Dogen]

When I was a tele tech at a union hospital I had great benefits. Not perfect, but still great. Those benefits were spelled out in the nurse's contract - I benefited from their negotiating strength. I work in a non-union hospital now, in a part of the country known for unions and higher than average wages (in a city where they can't build homes fast enough), and the pressure from the nearby unionized hospitals means I have good wages and fair working conditions equivalent to those facilities. I have 4 patients on day shift and a nurse staffing committee - not the hospital - sets our staffing matrix, thanks to a law that was written, lobbied, and passed in large part by the nursing union. We all take turns working holidays (everyone has to work Christmas at least every third year, etc).

I listen to people talking about stagnant wages and new grads getting hired who make as much as a nurse with 5 years of experience, and none of that happens here. Wages are set based on your years of experience, and when the base rate changes everyone gets a raise. When you get a new job at a new hospital you start at whatever the rate is based on your time as a nurse. All set by union contract. Good stuff.

[LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN]

Unions don't suck...especially when you are having serious safety issues and TPTB cover it up, don't provide support, or don't advocate for you.

My hospital just voted in a union-86% majority.

Plans are to involve the nurses; we have meetings scheduled and survey plans-everything is in the table for this contract.

I behoove the OP to be involved with their union, especially when the next contract is up, as well as stop listening to management blame the union when they don't want to staff accordingly or hire to have enough staff.

[AuDDoc]

I've seen people do that, too. And I've seen their bosses, while they can't fire them for that specifically, start looking v. carefully for reasons that they can fire them, and get rid of them the first chance they get.

Well if it's union good luck to them firing you for it or anything else!

[Emergent, RN]

Well if it's union good luck to them firing you for it or anything else!

Oh, they can fire people for absenteeism, one of my hospitals fired several last year. They went through the disciplinary steps correctly, the people were all chronically calling in. They all cried foul, of course.

[db2xs]

I agree with another post-er on here that it seems the main reason why you don't like unions is because of the "seniority" issue, which is minor compared to what a union can do for you. I used to be not in favor of unions when I was in nursing school but once I got into the working situation, I realized how invaluable it is. Without getting into details, I know personally of a situation where a patient died from a nursing medication error. The hospital claimed that the medication was supposed to get a double check, but the nurse who administered this mediation was never told this. The nurse was fired and was out of work for a year. The union fought for her, and she got her job back--plus, she was given one year's back pay for the time that she was erroneously out of work.

Shall we add this onto the list of another reason why unions suck?