Another reason unions suck!

Emergent, RN · Feb 10, 2016

I agree with another post-er on here that it seems the main reason why you don't like unions is because of the "seniority" issue, which is minor compared to what a union can do for you. I used to be not in favor of unions when I was in nursing school but once I got into the working situation, I realized how invaluable it is. Without getting into details, I know personally of a situation where a patient died from a nursing medication error. The hospital claimed that the medication was supposed to get a double check, but the nurse who administered this mediation was never told this. The nurse was fired and was out of work for a year. The union fought for her, and she got her job back--plus, she was given one year's back pay for the time that she was erroneously out of work.
Shall we add this onto the list of another reason why unions suck?

The seniority issue is huge, and was the main reason I left my job before last. The contract and culture there really stuck it to newer hires, and because it was a small town hospital, you didn't accrue any decent seniority for 20 years. I was there 8 years and got hammered schedule and vacation wise.

I became very anti union. I've mellowed about that after working in fairer facilities. Now I work in an even tinier hospital, but the schedules and vacations are handled fairly. Same union.

NursesRmofun, ASN, RN · Feb 10, 2016

Trying to get a vacation as a new RN under a union regime is challenging at best. It's all seniority based. So the senior RNs can basically come and go as they choose. But that means the rest of us cannot be off (even though we don't cover each other or know each other's job). Also the silly union made a rule that managers cannot approve vacations to far out. So if someone knows they want a certain week 2 years from now, they cannot secure it and start booking flights or whatever. It's irritating at best.

OP, I said this in the last thread about it. Seniority is a big disadvantage to the new people coming in with a union. It's just the way it is. And, yes, the senior staff pretty much do what they want. Basically, new people have to wait their turn and then they can get more benefits from being in a union.

db2xs · Feb 10, 2016

The seniority issue is huge, and was the main reason I left my job before last. The contract and culture there really stuck it to newer hires, and because it was a small town hospital, you didn't accrue any decent seniority for 20 years. I was there 8 years and got hammered schedule and vacation wise.
I became very anti union. I've mellowed about that after working in fairer facilities. Now I work in an even tinier hospital, but the schedules and vacations are handled fairly. Same union.

So it sounds like it was also a matter of the individual institution and what it was wiling to negotiate with the union. It doesn't mean that the union itself is bad. If the hospital administration is unwilling to negotiate fairly, then there's only so much one can do about it. I'm glad you're in a better and more fair facility.

twozer0, NP · Feb 10, 2016

I work for a union facility that reaches beyond just nursing (meaning housekeeping, plant operations, etc are all in it as well). I am ambivalent about how I feel about them. They have provided good pay, benefits, and a somewhat OK work environment but in turn it has fatal flaws.

The biggest gripe I have is how bad employees are harbored from losing their jobs. It doesnt matter if you call off and make my unit short once every 2 weeks, you'll still have your job. Its abused regularly at my facility in every department. if we had people that wanted to work in a team environment and left the baggage at the door it would be a wonderful place. We all have those workers that are just lazy and bring the department down, I suppose this is universal. I'm also not fond of the union including non licensed staff into the union. They collectively outweigh the amount of nurses and as such, we often lose out on things to their benefit and not mine. Example - No raise for 2 years but we'll give you a lump sum on money instead. Of course the people on the lower payscale jump on this the first second they drop it on the table during negotiations. Apparently none of them took a math class to understand that if you plan on working another 10 years, those raises would have made you 5 fold the amount of the lump sum. We lose out to stuff like this all the time.

As far as representation goes, its terrible. IF our facility wants you gone, your gone, the union doesnt care. Our representatives are usually people from dietary and laundry, tell me that they understand the complex world of nursing....

Ruby Vee, BSN · Feb 10, 2016

Trying to get a vacation as a new RN under a union regime is challenging at best. It's all seniority based. So the senior RNs can basically come and go as they choose. But that means the rest of us cannot be off (even though we don't cover each other or know each other's job). Also the silly union made a rule that managers cannot approve vacations to far out. So if someone knows they want a certain week 2 years from now, they cannot secure it and start booking flights or whatever. It's irritating at best.

Were you not aware of the vacation policy prior to your hire? Weren't you given access to the employee handbook?

Seniority is a fair system. If you know that Susie is given something that you are not because she is SENIOR to you, you know exactly why she got it and what you need to do in order to get the same thing. There is none of the favoritism stuff that people complain so vociferously about. Susie got the vacation time over you because she is senior to you. It sucks this year, but perhaps in two years, you'll be senior to enough people that you, too can have your first or second pick of vacation time. In a non-union situation, you may not have that assurance. This year Susie gets the vacation because she's senior to you, and next year Adele might get it because the manager feels she deserves it more because she's been active on the education committee or Burt gets it because the manager thinks he's a lot more fun than you are.

If you ever find yourself in a disciplinary situation, you will be very grateful for the support of the union, and at contract negotiation time, you get some input into the new contract -- as much input as you're willing to work for. There are opportunities to work on union committees, even the negotiating committee.

No workplace I've ever known about lets you schedule vacation two years from now. The most I've ever seen is 365 days in advance.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Feb 10, 2016

It should be you are only allowed to ask for one week during the first vacation application period. Based on seniority. Then after that it is first come first serve. I've always worked in that environment.
That and you wipe the union filth off yourself up here. It's everywhere.

We get that you're angry about the vacation issue, but there is no reason to be so inflammatory about it.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Feb 10, 2016

I hate, despise and detest unions. And I make no bones about it.

Apparently. But you are not polite or reasonable about your discussion of it, either.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Feb 10, 2016

This is in response to your vacation, not the union and rules etc
It is often said...it is much easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission.
I know lots of nurses who ask for time off, get denied, and then call in sick. Its pretty stupid on the employer's part since all that does is render a unit short...the person asking for time off is planning ahead..
I say what's the worst they can do? Take your birthday away?? I think not.
Enjoy your trip!

Well, they can discipline you . . . but if you're willing to live with the consequences, go for it. Unless, of course, you have personal integrity and a strong work ethic.

canigraduate · Feb 10, 2016

You're on a rampage lately. Maybe you need a few days off.

heron, ASN, RN · Feb 10, 2016

I work for a union facility that reaches beyond just nursing (meaning housekeeping, plant operations, etc are all in it as well). I am ambivalent about how I feel about them. They have provided good pay, benefits, and a somewhat OK work environment but in turn it has fatal flaws.
The biggest gripe I have is how bad employees are harbored from losing their jobs. It doesnt matter if you call off and make my unit short once every 2 weeks, you'll still have your job. Its abused regularly at my facility in every department. if we had people that wanted to work in a team environment and left the baggage at the door it would be a wonderful place. We all have those workers that are just lazy and bring the department down, I suppose this is universal. I'm also not fond of the union including non licensed staff into the union. They collectively outweigh the amount of nurses and as such, we often lose out on things to their benefit and not mine. Example - No raise for 2 years but we'll give you a lump sum on money instead. Of course the people on the lower payscale jump on this the first second they drop it on the table during negotiations. Apparently none of them took a math class to understand that if you plan on working another 10 years, those raises would have made you 5 fold the amount of the lump sum. We lose out to stuff like this all the time.
As far as representation goes, its terrible. IF our facility wants you gone, your gone, the union doesnt care. Our representatives are usually people from dietary and laundry, tell me that they understand the complex world of nursing....

Well, why don't nurses run for shop steward? It's your union, too ... stop waiting around for someone else to solve the problems

OCNRN63, RN · Feb 10, 2016

I will tell you guys what. The minute the unions do something that benefits me I will change my tune admit that they do do good. But until that point I don't foresee my opinion changing.

If you stay at that job, eventually you will be in the position to get more out of being a union member.

I see no problem with giving staff who have seniority more opportunities regarding benefits. They've earned them.

twozer0, NP · Feb 10, 2016

Well, why don't nurses run for shop steward? It's your union, too ... stop waiting around for someone else to solve the problems

Perhaps you missed the part where the amount of nurses in the union are dwarfed by the ancillary staff members. Voting on subjects like I listed above is common, collectively we do not have enough nurses to voice our opinions (even if you used every one of us). Its really a temporary matter in my case, I'll be gone in two years anyway! The job is tolerable, there are just little nuances that creep up, such of that as the 30+ career nurses who have one foot out the door towards retirement that could two ***** about the rest of the department or the facility.