SICK of BSN Pedestal - page 17

by DUDERNGUY 31,236 Views | 215 Comments

Get off the Pedestal with the whole BSN vs ADN thing. A fact this is overlooked is that ADN does the same job as BSN and passes the NCLEX. Everyone then cried ADN is uneducated blah blah. WHY dont we look at the 4 year... Read More


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    I agree education is important but in my opinion job experience can be much more valuable. I'd work with an experienced old school hospital trained nurse over a new grad bachelor degree nurse any day.
    kalevra and sallyrnrrt like this.
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    Quote from Bringonthenight
    I agree education is important but in my opinion job experience can be much more valuable. I'd work with an experienced old school hospital trained nurse over a new grad bachelor degree nurse any day.
    Experience is, undoubtedly, important.

    It is not a substitute for education. If nursing was a purely vocational profession than experience might trump education, but nursing is a knowledge-based profession (and its becoming more knowledge-based in a rapidly advancing healthcare field). It takes both experience and knowledge to be a good modern nurse.
    TriciaJ, Cathylady, NurseGuyBri, and 1 other like this.
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    I'm a recent Bachelors of Science educated Nurse in California. Before even applying to the clinical portion of Nursing i took Anatomy and Physiology I & II, a Philosophy series, a Psychology series, Pharmacology, an entire chemistry series before O-chem, Microbiology, Botany, Zoology, an entire English series, an entire Humanities series, Statistics, Human Development, Cell Physiology, Developmental Biology, General Ecology, and Mammalogy.....before taking one single nursing class.

    This education allows me to attend a Masters program if i so desire, or perhaps a PhD program if i one day feel that i can give back by educating and transitioning students into our amazing field. I will never feel ashamed for this education. In fact, it is one of the highest sources of pride in my life.

    I graduated in December 2012 and was offered a position late January 2013 with a starting pay of $42.90/hr. I am scared out of my mind. Will i be the best nurse on the floor? No, i wont even pretend to believe I'm more knowledgeable than the CNA with one day of experience. But what i do know is that i have the tenacity and gumption of sticking out college for five years and graduating with honors. I know that i mastered a didactic curriculum of nursing theory and skill. I know that wherever i go i will succeed. Whether this is intrinsic to my personality or a product of my education, i do not know.

    Lets keep advancing.
    TriciaJ, kalevra, and NurseGuyBri like this.
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    I don't think you'll find many who'll argue that education is good and more education is better than less. There is some confusion though about what differences in education can be assumed based on whether a program uses the term "ADN" or "BSN". Changing the name of an ADN program to a BSN program, without any actual changes to the program itself, has been proposed as a realistic way of moving from ADN to BSN-only programs. Which begs the question, is an ADN program really that different if all we have to do is change the letters (and cost) of the degree it produces?
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    I have been the ADN. I am now the BSN and currently finishing my first year in a BSN to DNP program. I firmly believe there needs to be just one way to become a registered nurse. Our profession would have more respect given if we were a cohesive group. Some of the best nurses I have worked with are ADNs but that doesn't mean we should stay on the hamster wheel and keep churning out ADNs now because "we have always done that". Now you almost have to have a degree to work at McDonalds. Times are changing and it is time to step up. ADNs may end up only working LTC. LPNs have already been pushed out of my workplace and ADNs have been given a deadline to complete the BSN.
    TriciaJ and NurseGuyBri like this.
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    MOM To 4 - I completely agree with you, well said! I do want to add a few things to this discussion. I'm concerned that people are too stuck on the letters. LET IT GO. RN is the only set of letters that matters right now. That being said, the different programs were created for reasons, and now it's time to consolidate. There is nothing wrong with anyone in the field right now who has their RN to be an RN. But, going forward, things need to change. Why? Because nurses are being popped out like pills in a LTC Med cart... I mean for real, all over the place. POP. pop. PoP. pOp. Nurse nurse nurse nurse nurse nurse. It's time to realign ourselves. We *CANNOT* leave our fellows behind, however. We have to allow those who are experience to continue to be experienced, no matter how they obtained their nursing IN THE PAST. Change is about moving forward. From here on out, we have to go FORWARD. Stop going back!! My old boss is an ADN. So what? She was great and she works as a consultant AND SHE DESERVES IT!! :-) My new boss is a BSN. He's great. He makes good money and? HE DESERVES IT. I'm a DIPLOMA RN with a degree in something non-nursing. I'm great. Guess what, I DESERVE IT. I am in a BSN program. Not because I want to outshine the ADN or Diploma- it's because I want to learn more. That is it!
    All of this being said, compared to other professions, we have to change if we want to stay up. A 2 year degree is a vocational degree. It's a practical degree - An associate of a professional. I'm not putting any ADN's down, I'm saying that is what an Associates Degree is designed for. That's why it's an ASSOCIATES. Can't change that, it is what it is... Bachelor's degree is an entry-level BACHELOR - one who is ready to run, wet behind the ears but full of base theory. A starting professional. That's why it's a BACHELOR's degree. Masters- You've mastered your subject. I could keep going. So, why is the associate degree- the vocational school prepared degree, not for a LPN? The bachelor, the professional, an RN? Makes sense to me. Coming from someone who is a diploma RN, you have to know that I'm not about being better or worse than anyone who IS ALREADY A NURSE. I think we need to stop going back and start going forward. Sorry about the long winded message, I hope the idea gets through.
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    Quote from NurseGuyBri
    MOM To 4 - I completely agree with you, well said! I do want to add a few things to this discussion. I'm concerned that people are too stuck on the letters. LET IT GO. RN is the only set of letters that matters right now. That being said, the different programs were created for reasons, and now it's time to consolidate. There is nothing wrong with anyone in the field right now who has their RN to be an RN. But, going forward, things need to change. Why? Because nurses are being popped out like pills in a LTC Med cart... I mean for real, all over the place. POP. pop. PoP. pOp. Nurse nurse nurse nurse nurse nurse. It's time to realign ourselves. We *CANNOT* leave our fellows behind, however. We have to allow those who are experience to continue to be experienced, no matter how they obtained their nursing IN THE PAST. Change is about moving forward. From here on out, we have to go FORWARD. Stop going back!! My old boss is an ADN. So what? She was great and she works as a consultant AND SHE DESERVES IT!! :-) My new boss is a BSN. He's great. He makes good money and? HE DESERVES IT. I'm a DIPLOMA RN with a degree in something non-nursing. I'm great. Guess what, I DESERVE IT. I am in a BSN program. Not because I want to outshine the ADN or Diploma- it's because I want to learn more. That is it!
    All of this being said, compared to other professions, we have to change if we want to stay up. A 2 year degree is a vocational degree. It's a practical degree - An associate of a professional. I'm not putting any ADN's down, I'm saying that is what an Associates Degree is designed for. That's why it's an ASSOCIATES. Can't change that, it is what it is... Bachelor's degree is an entry-level BACHELOR - one who is ready to run, wet behind the ears but full of base theory. A starting professional. That's why it's a BACHELOR's degree. Masters- You've mastered your subject. I could keep going. So, why is the associate degree- the vocational school prepared degree, not for a LPN? The bachelor, the professional, an RN? Makes sense to me. Coming from someone who is a diploma RN, you have to know that I'm not about being better or worse than anyone who IS ALREADY A NURSE. I think we need to stop going back and start going forward. Sorry about the long winded message, I hope the idea gets through.
    ^Message HEARD...and agreed!!!
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    Quote from MunoRN
    I don't think you'll find many who'll argue that education is good and more education is better than less. There is some confusion though about what differences in education can be assumed based on whether a program uses the term "ADN" or "BSN". Changing the name of an ADN program to a BSN program, without any actual changes to the program itself, has been proposed as a realistic way of moving from ADN to BSN-only programs. Which begs the question, is an ADN program really that different if all we have to do is change the letters (and cost) of the degree it produces?
    This is the first time i have ever heard of this proposal. The only real difference in the curriculum is that you would have to fill in all the classes for general requirement like art, philosophy, statistics etc.
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    Quote from MunoRN
    I don't think you'll find many who'll argue that education is good and more education is better than less. There is some confusion though about what differences in education can be assumed based on whether a program uses the term "ADN" or "BSN". Changing the name of an ADN program to a BSN program, without any actual changes to the program itself, has been proposed as a realistic way of moving from ADN to BSN-only programs. Which begs the question, is an ADN program really that different if all we have to do is change the letters (and cost) of the degree it produces?
    I agree.......Isn't that what an "accelerated BSN" is? You already have a 4 year degree in something else.......therefore you can be called a 4 year degree nurse after a 2 year education (because you already spent your money on fluff extraneous courses).

    Are they "better than" another nurse with an ADN 2 year education? Frankly...no.
    Nurse Leigh and redhead_NURSE98! like this.
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    [QUOTE=NurseGuyBri;7189641 A starting professional. That's why it's a BACHELOR's degree. Masters- You've mastered your subject. I could keep going. So, why is the associate degree- the vocational school prepared degree, not for a LPN? The bachelor, the professional, an RN? Makes sense to me. Coming from someone who is a diploma RN, you have to know that I'm not about being better or worse than anyone who IS ALREADY A NURSE. I think we need to stop going back and start going forward. Sorry about the long winded message, I hope the idea gets through.[/QUOTE]

    I agree with what you are saying. I do not think stream lining would ever happen, because it make too much sense and hurt too many feelings.

    Any time you want to advance the education requirement of any field, you will have people who feelings have been hurt. They will complain of being singled out or made to feel less than their counter parts. IN my opinion this is one of the reasons why the profession wont streamline the process.

    We are doing a disservice to our selves. We create a supply of nurses that is in excess of the demand. We end up having new grads that cannot find jobs for 6-12 months after school.

    We need to standardize entry, reduce the redundancy of multiple RN education standards and hopefully get wrangle in this our of control factory system we call nursing education.
    TriciaJ and NurseGuyBri like this.


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