"Fired for NO Reason" - page 51

by Ruby Vee

91,196 Views | 540 Comments

we often see threads with the title "fired for no reason," or "new grad harassed and fired" or something to that effect. and i always feel at least a little sympathy for the individual involved, if only because i can clearly see... Read More


  1. 1
    partial quote from ruby's post #495

    1."....................i'm beginning to think that your repeated suggestions that there would be a kinder, gentler way wo achieve appropriate employment are merely digs aimed at me. evidently you think i'm lacking somewhere in either mentorship, friendship or reporting skills."

    2."every attempt was made for remediation, she was given multiple second chances and no one was abusive................."

    ruby, i'm so sorry that i gave you the impression that my remarks were aimed at you. it's another "kill the messenger" type of thing, as i know you were kind enough to let sal vent to you, and reported the conundrum for our enlightenment. it was clear that you were not one of her preceptors, and may have been sucked into the difficulties sal experienced, which made her see you as her only ally.

    what i wanted to say, is that having 2 preceptors at a time can be daunting for anyone, much less a new grad. i've not seen that done. you and i know that icu nurses work in "lock step" or they'd have no back-up with urgent situations wherein they need to do many things for each other when in a tight spot with a decompensating patient.

    i was suggesting that a longer orientation in icu could be necessary for a new grad, like 6 months, possibly.

    when i teach, i try to make the environment as stress free as possible, to enhance learning, which is what i meant when i said "a kinder, gentler" approach might have achieved greater success with sal. i don't think that's possible when someone is faced by 2 experienced nurses who find her wanting; and then another 2 are assigned to her when she didn't make the grade with the others. they already had agreement on many issues, with the previous colleagues who thought sal wasn't someone they wanted working with them. how could they have said otherwise, a direct contradiction of the others' viewpoints?

    it would not be my way to orient someone who is having difficulty acclimating.

    we also know that psych nurses are the diametric opposite of critical care nurses. also, due to psychiatric patients' need to get out of the "fray". the atmosphere where they are, is accepting, nurturing, and gentle.

    icu nurses don't generally respond well to a new nurse with a "doe in the headlights" look. their expertise as i know it, is to sum up a situation correctly, quickly and act accordingly without wondering how the patient will feel about what their actions. i'd not do well as an icu nurse, which is why i never worked there. i need and project warmth and reassurance. it's possible that you sense my priorities, and they're not yours, which is ok.

    we each have found work/niches that are appropriate for us, given who we are. luckily in nursing there are many opportunities for all kinds of nurses and their approaches to their work.
    scoochy likes this.
  2. 6
    I'm not really referring to Sal specifically when I give examples but I do know that when a person is targeted, an entire department can stick together to boot you out. I've seen it numerous times. A paper trail is started and everyone is asked to contribute to it so a person can be put out on their ear. It's not about trying to work with a person, it's about a witch hunt and you don't have a leg to stand on !!!!!! Did anyone ever think about maybe putting Sal out on the floor to give her some basic experience? I personally think everyone was too busy trying to find fault in her-word can spread fast and an opinion can be formed before a person ever hits a certain department-this translates to being doomed from the start.
    Faithful_RN, AmericanRN, NurseAdida, and 3 others like this.
  3. 0
    After reading the first few posts, I felt like I was listening to a "cat fight," or watching a mud slinging contest. There are ways to say things, and then there are ways to say things. This thread has really taken me by surprise; I was just about to go to another nurses' web site, but I kept reading. Thankfully, some decorum was re-established here..........
  4. 1
    [quote=lamazeteacher;4105546]
    Quote from snoopy29
    "....... The big question for me is would I want that nurse looking after a member of my family???"

    It would never be my choice to have a new grad with questionable skills in ICU in the first place, and definitely not caring for any of my family members!

    However, do we really know how she would function with 6 months of positive, standardised preceptorship, by nurses who believe that new grads can make it in ICU without previous M/S experience. Nurses working together usually don't "diss" each other, which is possibly why the second set of twinsy preceptors seconded the opinion of the first set. What is the reason for 2 preceptors at a time?

    Maybe I'm just for the underdog here, but I have to say it again, I think she was overwhelmed with a double dose of unsupportive mentors, and a pseudo supporter in the wings, in a scary situation not appropriate for newbys.
    I hardly see where Sal was "traumatized" - looks like she was oblivious to any issues with her performance. She probably STILL thinks they ganged up on her for no reason...

    Also it's not correct that ICU is "a scary situation for appropriate for newbys" - I was a new grad in ICU and I did just fine, in fact I still love it. It totally dependent on picking the right people for the right positions, and providing adequate orientation and support.
    talaxandra likes this.
  5. 8
    Quote from lamazeteacher
    partial quote from ruby's post #495

    1."....................i'm beginning to think that your repeated suggestions that there would be a kinder, gentler way wo achieve appropriate employment are merely digs aimed at me. evidently you think i'm lacking somewhere in either mentorship, friendship or reporting skills."

    2."every attempt was made for remediation, she was given multiple second chances and no one was abusive................."

    ruby, i'm so sorry that i gave you the impression that my remarks were aimed at you. it's another "kill the messenger" type of thing, as i know you were kind enough to let sal vent to you, and reported the conundrum for our enlightenment. it was clear that you were not one of her preceptors, and may have been sucked into the difficulties sal experienced, which made her see you as her only ally.

    what i wanted to say, is that having 2 preceptors at a time can be daunting for anyone, much less a new grad. i've not seen that done. you and i know that icu nurses work in "lock step" or they'd have no back-up with urgent situations wherein they need to do many things for each other when in a tight spot with a decompensating patient.

    i was suggesting that a longer orientation in icu could be necessary for a new grad, like 6 months, possibly.

    when i teach, i try to make the environment as stress free as possible, to enhance learning, which is what i meant when i said "a kinder, gentler" approach might have achieved greater success with sal. i don't think that's possible when someone is faced by 2 experienced nurses who find her wanting; and then another 2 are assigned to her when she didn't make the grade with the others. they already had agreement on many issues, with the previous colleagues who thought sal wasn't someone they wanted working with them. how could they have said otherwise, a direct contradiction of the others' viewpoints?

    it would not be my way to orient someone who is having difficulty acclimating.

    we also know that psych nurses are the diametric opposite of critical care nurses. also, due to psychiatric patients' need to get out of the "fray". the atmosphere where they are, is accepting, nurturing, and gentle.

    icu nurses don't generally respond well to a new nurse with a "doe in the headlights" look. their expertise as i know it, is to sum up a situation correctly, quickly and act accordingly without wondering how the patient will feel about what their actions. i'd not do well as an icu nurse, which is why i never worked there. i need and project warmth and reassurance. it's possible that you sense my priorities, and they're not yours, which is ok.

    we each have found work/niches that are appropriate for us, given who we are. luckily in nursing there are many opportunities for all kinds of nurses and their approaches to their work.
    we assign two preceptors at a time because new hires have a lot of central hospital classes to attend, and it's too difficult to pair them with one preceptor every day that they work. the odds are greatly improved with two main preceptors, usually an experienced preceptor paired with someone who is new to the role. sal herself asked to have new preceptors when the first ones failed to appreciate her critical thinking skills and mastery of time management. (that was tongue in cheek -- although she did manage to get her vital signs, meds and i & os done on time, there was very little critical thinking taking place and she failed to master many of the technical skills necessary.) she claimed that they're mentoring styles were inhibiting her growth. she was assigned new preceptors -- who found the exact same issues with her performance as the first two, the ones sal believed were unfairly targeting her.

    orientation for new grads is expected to be 6 months and is often extended by a couple of weeks. however, if someone is showing clear signs that things aren't going to work out -- as in sal, who wouldn't learn from her preceptors because she was convinced she already knew everything she needed to -- it's more cost effective to stop devote the energy to trying to force them into the icu mold and help them find a new position instead.

    the whole point of this overlong thread is that sometimes when newbies assume that "everyone is picking on them" and they're really doing well but the cliques are "trying to get rid" of them "for no good reason," sometimes the newbies are mistaken. some of those preceptors who are "picking on them" are genuinely trying to help them out, and they don't get it. they'd rather complain of the unfairness of it all rather than take a look at their own behavior or take responsibility for themselves. i guess i'm shocked at how many members seem to believe that if a newbie fails it's never their fault, but rather always a failure in education or mentoring.
    llg, Scrubby, Pepper The Cat, and 5 others like this.
  6. 2
    What astounds me is that people insist a person can do well if enough/the right training is provided. While that is optimal there are still people that just will not work out.

    I would suck as a hospital nurse most likely. I am smart and have many fine skills, and I am a really good nurse, but none of that means I will do a good job as an ICU nurse no matter what training is provided.
    RN1982 and Ruby Vee like this.
  7. 2
    Quote from CrunchRN
    What astounds me is that people insist a person can do well if enough/the right training is provided. While that is optimal there are still people that just will not work out.

    I would suck as a hospital nurse most likely. I am smart and have many fine skills, and I am a really good nurse, but none of that means I will do a good job as an ICU nurse no matter what training is provided.
    That's why it should be mandatory that all new grads spend, at least, one year on a M/S floor. You know, I had that same thing said to me when I first started out and I didn't listen and went into the OR as my first job. It doesn't make for a well rounded nurse. You can have a nurse that spent their entire career in the OR and that nurse not be a really good nurse, from a technical standpoint, because they still don't know the basics of nursing. It can be done and is done everyday but it doesn't build a high quality nurse from the ground up. I spent two years as a nurse tech while in nursing school and was one of the few to acquire a job while in school. When we graduated, I was really proficient in all the basic pt. care routines and most of my class mates were still struggling with VITALS!!!! There's a proper way to build a career-I think the two yrs. as a tech may have saved me in my early struggles as an RN. These hospitals who hire new grads for the ICU are asking for trouble. MY father was passing away little over a year ago in the CCU in Atlanta and he had a new grad(Very obvious)taking care of him-She was being shadowed by a very good preceptor.However, I did watch her very closely and made sure the proper things were being done. As far as that goes, I stayed close behind the residents also and kept them in check. He received excellent care overall before he passed but I was still very protective-I will note that I"m not one of those pestering kind of RN's or family members-I try to be helpful and stay low keyed. There's nothing worse than not being able to even get to the pt. because you're stepping over family members!!!!!
    shoegalRN and scoochy like this.
  8. 0
    Wow this post is scary to a nursing student! I hope to have a cheat sheet or cheat pocket book to help me in my first year of nursing . . but I'm also thankful that the hospital that has sponsored my education has has a 1 year "university" for new nurses to help break them in slowly.
  9. 1
    Quote from heron
    You may have missed the part where the nurse in question is being trained in ICU ... trust me, you do NOT come out of school knowing how to work in critical care. As for being uncompensated, it's already costing the hospital major bucks to train her ... as in five figures ... where did you get the idea you should be paid to do the homework on top of it???

    Nonsense. Those numbers are bull, and a major percentage of it is split between departments and written off. What's more, a lot of requirements are available on the hospital's Intranet, so they also save money that way.

    I don't want idiots working in critical care either. Point is, there are tons of cut-throat b!Tches that are insecure and just plain miserable in themselves and their own lives. They like to feel all-powerful and in control and dominant, so they put their bull above supporting nurses that simply need some understanding and guidance--and they will especially eat those that are confident, bright, strong-minded and caring. If they're attractive, that can be another downside--except if the attractive newbie knows how to kiss azz really well and is unparalleled in playing games--then they tend to excel to the top. It's nauseating what happens. Everywhere you go, people that work with nurses in many areas come back and say "What are these nurses such cut-throat b!tches?" When you hear it and see it enough times, you know that there is truth in it. And I've been around it a long time, so I know that I know what I'm talking about. I'm just one of many good nurses that have decided that getting through advanced education is my only way out of swimming in cut-throat land. Yes, there is cut-throat mentalities elsewhere, however, I want my power of choice to limit it--it seems that only too often nurses are swimming in this viciousness. And if they aren't open about it, they simply get great at playing cut-throat games behind the scenes. It still goes on and on. As long as it looks OK on the service, management thinks all is well. I'd rather have a handful of honest people than tons of backstabbing, cut-throat, sneaky, insecure nurses working around me. Sadly, most of the managers are just as bad--they, afterall, set the tone--they just teach that it should be done with the appearance that all is well. Hell could be breaking out behind the scenes. As long as it all looks like no over conflict, they are happy. It's such utter BS.
    Faithful_RN likes this.
  10. 0
    While I agree women can be viscious, I don't believe it is only nursing in which this occurs. They are trained throughout school to be evil and by evil mothers as they grow up! But as someone who has worked with men and has learned that at least women are evil in your face, men will trip you up quietly smiling all the while. However they do perform better as team members.

    That being said, the money portion is very true. If my ER precepts a new grad for 22-25 weeks they are with another nurse. One salary is completely shot to hell, certifications, and classes also cost a fortune. How much is a round of PALs, BLS, ACLS, and ABLS worth? How about IV certification and trauma courses? I am not sure about 100K but am definitely sure of about 50K.

    Maisy


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