Apparently per the EEOC's guidelines employers (not just healthcare related) can mandate vaccination of workers. The exception is a "sincerely held religious belief" or a covered disability. Just found out this morning that a chain of for profit LTC/SNF's are rolling out a Covid vaccine mandate for all direct care staff or face indefinite unpaid administrative leave. I am a heavy supporter of vaccination and of the new COVID vaccine and in fact am due to get one in early January. But I am doing so of my own volition. My facility encouraged all workers to sign up for a vaccine and provided information sessions and it's been really effective at getting people to sign up.
Even though I would disagree with someone's choice to not vaccinate, I don't believe they should be mandated at this point.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
3 hours ago, brandy1017 said:
It is actually from Australia and from Falun Gong Chinese who are totally opposed to communist China. I was looking for another article I had seen when the Florida Dr died and also when the CA healthcare worker died after his second vaccine. I had seen an article mentioning why the Florida Dr died and that there had been 37 patients total who had been hospitalized with thrombocytopenia, but he was the only one who died at the time. I wasn't able to find that article as it was from several months ago. I stumbled upon this one and it brought up more people with thrombocytopenia since then. I believe the information is coming directly from the VAERS cite. Of course, in all these situations can you say 100% it was from the vaccine vs just a coincidence, no you can't. But it seems alarming to me.
As I've said before other countries are more open about the adverse effects people have experienced with the covid vaccines. Until the J&J pause after 7 patients developed clots that cause stroke and I don't remember how many died, all the rest of the people who had experienced serious issues such as paralysis did not hit the national news. I don't believe the Fl Dr or the CA healthcare worker hit the national news. These issues were from Pfizer and Moderna and nothing was being made public, except for local journalists. Until all of sudden the govt decided to halt the J&J vaccine. I don't believe the strokes and deaths were public until the govt made that decision.
Anyone can go on the VAERS website and see deaths etc that occurred shortly after covid vaccination. I know it doesn't prove causation, but unless you look it up or a local journalist lists the data, you would not know.
You can write an article off as disinformation because you don't like the source or the politics etc, but you can also fact check it thru VAERS for instance. I don't believe they just made the whole article up.
VAERS is nothing more than the aggregated side effects or adverse reactions that are reported from the general public following vaccination. You are correct that there is no evidence of causation when considering those medical concerns. You should remember that the database is also not necessarily evidence of even correlation. VAERS is a tool.
Are you being led to websites and blogs by social media discussion of vaccine concerns?
While it is true that not every death (or other event) reported on VAERS is actually related to vaccines injuries (or deaths) it may also be true that only a small fraction of actual injuries are actually reported. Consider, this report from the Health and Human Services report:
"A 2011 report by Harvard Pilgrim Health Care, Inc. for the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) stated that fewer than one percent of all vaccine adverse events are reported to the government:4
Although 25% of ambulatory patients experience an adverse drug event, less than 0.3% of all adverse drug events and 1-13% of serious events are reported to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Likewise, fewer than 1% of vaccine adverse events are reported. Low reporting rates preclude or slow the identification of “problem” drugs and vaccines that endanger public health. New surveillance methods for drug and vaccine adverse effects are needed."
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
On 5/4/2021 at 7:32 PM, myoglobin said:
While it is true that not every death (or other event) reported on VAERS is actually related to vaccines injuries (or deaths) it may also be true that only a small fraction of actual injuries are actually reported. Consider, this report from the Health and Human Services report:
"A 2011 report by Harvard Pilgrim Health Care, Inc. for the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) stated that fewer than one percent of all vaccine adverse events are reported to the government:4
Although 25% of ambulatory patients experience an adverse drug event, less than 0.3% of all adverse drug events and 1-13% of serious events are reported to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Likewise, fewer than 1% of vaccine adverse events are reported. Low reporting rates preclude or slow the identification of “problem” drugs and vaccines that endanger public health. New surveillance methods for drug and vaccine adverse effects are needed."
That's not surprising that so few adverse effects are reported. For instance, most people don't report the low grade fever, myalgia or malaise when they anticipate those symptoms as expected and of no concern. Were you making a specific point with your comment?
That's not surprising that so few adverse effects are reported. For instance, most people don't report the low grade fever, myalgia or malaise when they anticipate those symptoms as expected and of no concern. Were you making a specific point with your comment?
Yes, the point was that while not perfect VAERS data is relevant. Many of the VAERS deaths associated with Covid happened within a week of the vaccinations. The so called "swine flu" vaccine was suspended with far fewer adverse events. Vaccines have both risks and benefits and VAERS is one tool that gives input for the risks. If we classified deaths after the vaccine in the same way that we classified deaths after Covid infection (as probably related) then the vaccine would be seen as relatively riskier than is currently the case.
The CDC changed the way that it defined deaths from Covid in a way that was different from historical precedent and resulted in those with comorbid conditions who died with Covid as being counted as a Covid 19 death inflating the numbers of Covid 19 deaths (relative to historical approaches)
The country has reached those of of not hesitant, but rather staunchly skeptical of this vaccine brought to us at "warp speed" by our former President. While I respected Trump for many things I am skeptical that "stage 1" trials are a substitute for a full clinical trial process. You will see further vaccination efforts slow to a crawl until better data emerges and it will likely take several years to convince many.
While I respected Trump for many things I am skeptical that "stage 1" trials are a substitute for a full clinical trial process. You will see further vaccination efforts slow to a crawl until better data emerges and it will likely take several years to convince many.
You know that the vaccine trials went through phase I - III before being granted emergency use authorisation. Please stopspreadingdisinformation by pretending that they were only ”stage 1” trials.
Phase I is the early safety dose-ranging part of a trial normally involving a couple of dozen or perhaps a hundred participants. If the drug or vaccine is determined to be safe to check for efficacy it moves on to phase II. The phase III trials were quite large, involving tens of thousands participants.
We have now administered more than 1.4 billion doses worldwide of the various vaccines with very few serious adverse events reported. We are in phase IV. I’m not sure what data those who still are hesitant are waiting for and why you think they might become convinced in the future, when they aren’t now considering all the data we actually have available.
I do hope that they will become convinced, but that will require that they start looking at the data and come to the realization that there is evidence available that taking a vaccine is a much better choice than taking a risk with an infection. For them personally and for society as a whole. The data is there. They just need to reach a point where they can come to terms with that fact.
Allowing the pandemic to keep percolating increases the likelihood of more mutations evolving. It needs to be stopped.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
12 hours ago, myoglobin said:
Yes, the point was that while not perfect VAERS data is relevant. Many of the VAERS deaths associated with Covid happened within a week of the vaccinations. The so called "swine flu" vaccine was suspended with far fewer adverse events. Vaccines have both risks and benefits and VAERS is one tool that gives input for the risks. If we classified deaths after the vaccine in the same way that we classified deaths after Covid infection (as probably related) then the vaccine would be seen as relatively riskier than is currently the case.
The CDC changed the way that it defined deaths from Covid in a way that was different from historical precedent and resulted in those with comorbid conditions who died with Covid as being counted as a Covid 19 death inflating the numbers of Covid 19 deaths (relative to historical approaches)
The country has reached those of of not hesitant, but rather staunchly skeptical of this vaccine brought to us at "warp speed" by our former President. While I respected Trump for many things I am skeptical that "stage 1" trials are a substitute for a full clinical trial process. You will see further vaccination efforts slow to a crawl until better data emerges and it will likely take several years to convince many.
We will see vaccination rates in the USA fall because the easy part is done...the low hanging fruit is easy and fast in mass vaccination. We'll never convince antivaxxers with data because, like you, they don't accept the data preferring to share fear and doubt. As mentioned before, the data at this time demonstrates that the vaccines are effective and safe. You simply don't want to accept that.
Younger people are getting sicker than who? Yes some younger people get sick (and die) from Covid but exponentially more older people face increased morbidity and mortality. It is a curve that is much more steep with age relative to most diseases. Thus if there is any risk from vaccines the person under 30 and generally healthy is the one who should ponder this risk to benefit scenario the most. Even more so if they have had a confirmed infection and recovered in the past six months. Having said that most younger people will likely conclude that the risk to benefit ratio argues for vaccination to a marked extent.
Many people have survived after free-falling more than 10,000 feet without the use of a parachute. Statistically, older age predicts a much higher risk of not surviving such a fall. Does this suggest that if you're young there's no reason to use a parachute? Also, parachutes are not without risk, there have been cases of skydivers becoming tangled in their chute's lines being strangulated.
So based on the factors, clearly it's safer for younger people to jump out of airplanes without a parachute.
It is actually from Australia and from Falun Gong Chinese who are totally opposed to communist China. I was looking for another article I had seen when the Florida Dr died and also when the CA healthcare worker died after his second vaccine. I had seen an article mentioning why the Florida Dr died and that there had been 37 patients total who had been hospitalized with thrombocytopenia, but he was the only one who died at the time. I wasn't able to find that article as it was from several months ago. I stumbled upon this one and it brought up more people with thrombocytopenia since then. I believe the information is coming directly from the VAERS cite. Of course, in all these situations can you say 100% it was from the vaccine vs just a coincidence, no you can't. But it seems alarming to me.
As I've said before other countries are more open about the adverse effects people have experienced with the covid vaccines. Until the J&J pause after 7 patients developed clots that cause stroke and I don't remember how many died, all the rest of the people who had experienced serious issues such as paralysis did not hit the national news. I don't believe the Fl Dr or the CA healthcare worker hit the national news. These issues were from Pfizer and Moderna and nothing was being made public, except for local journalists. Until all of sudden the govt decided to halt the J&J vaccine. I don't believe the strokes and deaths were public until the govt made that decision.
Anyone can go on the VAERS website and see deaths etc that occurred shortly after covid vaccination. I know it doesn't prove causation, but unless you look it up or a local journalist lists the data, you would not know.
You can write an article off as disinformation because you don't like the source or the politics etc, but you can also fact check it thru VAERS for instance. I don't believe they just made the whole article up.
It's one of two "publications" that the Falun Gong uses to recruit people, the other being the Epoch Times.
Since, among other things, joining the Falun Gong involves accepting the idea that aliens walk among us and have encouraged interracial marriage as a way of destroying humankind and the leader himself is apparently also an alien they needed a way to seek out people who are susceptible to believing wild conspiracy theories.
They use the Epoch Times and the Vision News to post various conspiracy theories, and if someone buys into those stories then they're the type of person the Falun Gong is looking for.
It's one of two "publications" that the Falun Gong uses to recruit people, the other being the Epoch Times.
Since, among other things, joining the Falun Gong involves accepting the idea that aliens walk among us and have encouraged interracial marriage as a way of destroying humankind and the leader himself is apparently also an alien they needed a way to seek out people who are susceptible to believing wild conspiracy theories.
They use the Epoch Times and the Vision News to post various conspiracy theories, and if someone buys into those stories then they're the type of person the Falun Gong is looking for.
While I do not endorse the Falun Gong they are one of the most oppressed religions in the world with the many of the members being imprisoned and some even harvested alive for their organs by an oppressive Chinese government that operates in many ways like those that we fought in the Second World War.
I know 2 people that had anaphylactic shock. Survived post vaccine. Another an autoimmune disorder developed 3 weeks after vaccine.
I could tell about a few other people I know that have had reactions.
I am interested in learning as much as I can do pro and cons of vaccine. Weigh risk to benefit especially for children.
Most people that I know that had reactions stated they did not report reaction to VAERS. I am curious how frequently adverse reactions get reported.
I ask all of my Washington clients about the vaccination experience. Of the 150 or so that I've spoken to about half had zero symptoms. However, at least 50% of the others had to miss at least one day of work and maybe 25% had to miss at least a week of work. No deaths or hospital stays of which I am aware.
5 hours ago, MunoRN said:
Many people have survived after free-falling more than 10,000 feet without the use of a parachute. Statistically, older age predicts a much higher risk of not surviving such a fall. Does this suggest that if you're young there's no reason to use a parachute? Also, parachutes are not without risk, there have been cases of skydivers becoming tangled in their chute's lines being strangulated.
So based on the factors, clearly it's safer for younger people to jump out of airplanes without a parachute.
The vast majority of young people survive covid with no ill effects. Very few would survive jumping out of a plane without a parachute.
It's one of two "publications" that the Falun Gong uses to recruit people, the other being the Epoch Times.
Since, among other things, joining the Falun Gong involves accepting the idea that aliens walk among us and have encouraged interracial marriage as a way of destroying humankind and the leader himself is apparently also an alien they needed a way to seek out people who are susceptible to believing wild conspiracy theories.
They use the Epoch Times and the Vision News to post various conspiracy theories, and if someone buys into those stories then they're the type of person the Falun Gong is looking for.
I think there beautiful Shen Yun performances yearly around the world would be a much better recruitment tool. Whatever! I'm open to news from here and abroad and listen to both liberal and conservative sites and can make up my own mind!
Certainly, one's political viewpoint may influence news, but it doesn't change facts, In the article they were simply reporting on the VAERS numbers of people who have died or been seriously injured shortly after receiving the vaccine. Scores of people have been hospitalized for thrombocytopenia following the vaccine. There article and a local one following the CA healthcare worker who died after his second shot are the only news I've seen of this, let alone of deaths. The 3,000 plus deaths are nowhere in the news. We only heard about the ?9 people who've had strokes and several deaths with the J&J vax because the govt decided to halt the vax, or we wouldn't know about that either. Unless it was you, a family member or acquaintance or a local news broadcast no one would no about these severe and deadly, just random, coincidental events, of course.
I'm actually surprised the govt allows the numbers of deaths and injuries to be public on VAERS when they are pushing how safe it is.
We will have to agree to disagree, but I don't think the people that died, were paralyzed or otherwise harmed after the vax would call it misinformation!
toomuchbaloney
16,038 Posts
VAERS is nothing more than the aggregated side effects or adverse reactions that are reported from the general public following vaccination. You are correct that there is no evidence of causation when considering those medical concerns. You should remember that the database is also not necessarily evidence of even correlation. VAERS is a tool.
Are you being led to websites and blogs by social media discussion of vaccine concerns?
Misinformation on Social Media