Apparently per the EEOC's guidelines employers (not just healthcare related) can mandate vaccination of workers. The exception is a "sincerely held religious belief" or a covered disability. Just found out this morning that a chain of for profit LTC/SNF's are rolling out a Covid vaccine mandate for all direct care staff or face indefinite unpaid administrative leave. I am a heavy supporter of vaccination and of the new COVID vaccine and in fact am due to get one in early January. But I am doing so of my own volition. My facility encouraged all workers to sign up for a vaccine and provided information sessions and it's been really effective at getting people to sign up.
Even though I would disagree with someone's choice to not vaccinate, I don't believe they should be mandated at this point.
What you see as patriotic duty to mitigate and vaccinate I feel is the right to choose what you put in your body. Just as you probably don't see elective abortion as genocide against minorities (as I do) by left of center elites who seek to create a dystopian, Orwellian society. Different people different perspectives. II don't even say that your viewpoint is inferior or incorrect. Rather I propose it involves a different value set and analysis of a complex set of issues, values, mores and ethics. Just as I opposed The Patriot Act after 911 stating then that I would prefer every city being hit with a 911 style attack over the further erosion of privacy I would not support mandatory vaccination even if it meant 10% of the population perishing from Covid even if that include me and my family. Like the Jews of ancient Israel who took their lives on Masada rather than submit to their Roman opponent,
I would prefer to perish free than live in great wealth under the technocratic chains of a totalitarian society.
Yikes
Most of that is just too "out there" for this forum and specifically this thread.
Otherwise, yeah, I'm familiar with the way that data is manipulated to create a false impression of risk to the public. Why not add up the deaths from all firearms since you add up all of the deaths from any sharp object?
Yes, I agree that our values are different when I will accept vaccination to create a safer and healthier society and you currently will not while musing about dissolving our republic.
In what is purported to be the largest study of its kind to-date, results showed that among 236,379 COVID-19 patients, one third were diagnosed with at least one of 14 psychiatric or neurologic disorders within a 6-month span.
Also, according to the NYTimes, 907 people in the US died yesterday.
B.1.1.7, the first variant to come to widespread attention, is about 60percent more contagious and 67 percent more deadly than the original form of the coronavirus, according to the most recent estimates.
I hope those health care workers who are hesitant to take a vaccine are aware of these facts.
The report you cited completely refutes your argument. Did you not read the opening statement? And how did you get that triple comment as it makes no sense whatsoever? Facts matter
“Handguns are by far the most common murder weapon used in the United States, accounting for 6,368 homicides in 2019. This is followed by firearms of an unstated type, with 2,963 cases in that year. When combined, murders with guns comprised around 73.6 percent of the 13,927 total homicide victims recorded by the FBI in 2019.”
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
38 minutes ago, emtb2rn said:
The report you cited completely refutes your argument. Did you not read the opening statement? And how did you get that triple comment as it makes no sense whatsoever? Facts matter
“Handguns are by far the most common murder weapon used in the United States, accounting for 6,368 homicides in 2019. This is followed by firearms of an unstated type, with 2,963 cases in that year. When combined, murders with guns comprised around 73.6 percent of the 13,927 total homicide victims recorded by the FBI in 2019.”
”Handguns 6,368
Firearms, type not stated 3,281
Knives or cutting instruments 1,476”
This is why he disingenuously narrowed the comparison to rifles only. The intention isn't even honest. But we're supposed to take his vaccine concerns seriously.
This is why he disingenuously narrowed the comparison to rifles only. The intention isn't even honest. But we're supposed to take his vaccine concerns seriously.
I focused on rifles because lately I have been purchasing AR10's (as have most have my friends) and we are told they are the subject of fothcoming bans. Handguns even at over 6000 are far less than auto accidents/deaths and unlike cars firearms are constitutionally protected.
In what is purported to be the largest study of its kind to-date, results showed that among 236,379 COVID-19 patients, one third were diagnosed with at least one of 14 psychiatric or neurologic disorders within a 6-month span.
Also, according to the NYTimes, 907 people in the US died yesterday.
B.1.1.7, the first variant to come to widespread attention, is about 60percent more contagious and 67 percent more deadly than the original form of the coronavirus, according to the most recent estimates.
I hope those health care workers who are hesitant to take a vaccine are aware of these facts.
Again, even if you could convince me that 10% of the population would die of Covid w/o the vaccine (around 35million) I would still oppose mandatory vaccination. Just as I argued with my friends at that time that even if you could convince me that there would be a 911 attack in EVERY major city I would still oppose abrogation of our privacy rights which the Patriot Act very much did. Liberty is more precious than life and freedom should not be bartered for security. There are things more important than physical existence and belief in a spiritual existence that transcends this materialistic world in almost essential in coming to that value/set conclusion.
Again, even if you could convince me that 10% of the population would die of Covid w/o the vaccine (around 35million) I would still oppose mandatory vaccination. Just as I argued with my friends at that time that even if you could convince me that there would be a 911 attack in EVERY major city I would still oppose abrogation of our privacy rights which the Patriot Act very much did. Liberty is more precious than life and freedom should not be bartered for security. There are things more important than physical existence and belief in a spiritual existence that transcends this materialistic world in almost essential in coming to that value/set conclusion. Again it comes down to values (different not better or worse). For example this reports estimates over 40 million abortions https://www.christianpost.com/news/m-babies-aborted-in-2020-surpassing-leading-causes-of-death.html in 2020. As someone who considers the lives of the unborn to be as valuable as those of us already born that far surpasses deaths from Covid. Indeed. to the extent that lockdowns may have delayed many elective procedures from one perspective Covid may have even saved lives in certain area. Also, given that so many more abortions occur among minorities I consider it to be a form of "racial genocide" . Indeed, one of the important members in the founding of Planned Parenthood Margaret Sanger was a believer in Eugenics and saw abortion among minorities as a key tool in achieving that objective https://www.hli.org/2020/07/planned-parenthood-eugenic-racism/ . Again, how you approach a "decision matrix" on things like mandatory vaccination/passports relies upon a great many value sets. I believe that there are essentially "two Americas" and the time that we can coexist is passing. Peaceful breakup may be the best outcome. "We" believe you to be "materialistic and soulless" and willing to sell out our most fundamental liberties for temporary security. "You" believe "us" to be extremist willing to destroy the greater good for our personal "whims" based upon our "supernatural" unscientific "world views" based mostly in fairy tales. There is no saving this marriage and no amount of counseling or talking is gong to make it better. When that happens to couples they call it irreconcilable differences and they hopefully get a peaceful divorce before they destroy one another.
Again, even if you could convince me that 10% of the population would die of Covid w/o the vaccine (around 35million) I would still oppose mandatory vaccination. Just as I argued with my friends at that time that even if you could convince me that there would be a 911 attack in EVERY major city I would still oppose abrogation of our privacy rights which the Patriot Act very much did. Liberty is more precious than life and freedom should not be bartered for security. There are things more important than physical existence and belief in a spiritual existence that transcends this materialistic world in almost essential in coming to that value/set conclusion.
I don't know why you assume this was directed at you, because I have read your previous posts. I have no intention of trying to sway your decision.
My comments on the number of people dying, every day (Per NYT, 2564 persons yesterday) and the prevalence of side effects is directed toward those that are hesitant and or wavering. I don't want people to die of a preventable illness. You apparently don't care ("liberty is more precious than life"), but I do. I care about my life, my family's, my co-workers and my community members. I don't want to catch it and I surely don't want to spread it.
You seem to base your refusal to take a vaccine based on a belief system.
I trust vaccines because science is fact, not a belief.
I don't know why you assume this was directed at you, because I have read your previous posts. I have no intention of trying to sway your decision.
My comments on the number of people dying, every day (Per NYT, 2564 persons yesterday) and the prevalence of side effects is directed toward those that are hesitant and or wavering. I don't want people to die of a preventable illness. You apparently don't care ("liberty is more precious than life"), but I do. I care about my life, my family's, my co-workers and my community members. I don't want to catch it and I surely don't want to spread it.
You seem to base your refusal to take a vaccine based on a belief system.
I trust vaccines because science is fact, not a belief.
I am not against vaccines. Rather I believe they have risks and benefits and that for most people the benefits outweigh the risks. I also believe it must be a personal decision not forced in any way. Given that this is a newer, less tested vaccine I believe the risks are perhaps greater than historical vaccines. Also, I believe when you have VAERS data pointing to over 2000 deaths possibly linked to Covid shots, but "experts" saying that there are 0 deaths that this may represent "agenda" based analysis. Science is never set is stone. It is always about continued hypothesis, debate and questioning.
I focused on rifles because lately I have been purchasing AR10's (as have most have my friends) and we are told they are the subject of fothcoming bans. Handguns even at over 6000 are far less than auto accidents/deaths and unlike cars firearms are constitutionally protected.
AR10’s” as in plural? Why would you need multiple battle rifles? Seriously, why? If for home defense, nowhere near as good a choice as a shotgun. If for hunting, I guess they work if you need to fire multiple rounds quickly to bring down your target as opposed to using say a winchester model 70 bolt action.
And correct me if I’m wrong but you used the fbi means of homicide report, I don’t recollect cars being on that list as a tool for homicide. So ahh, whatchu talkin’ ‘bout willis?
I am not against vaccines. Rather I believe they have risks and benefits and that for most people the benefits outweigh the risks. I also believe it must be a personal decision not forced in any way. Given that this is a newer, less tested vaccine I believe the risks are perhaps greater than historical vaccines. Also, I believe when you have VAERS data pointing to over 2000 deaths possibly linked to Covid shots, but "experts" saying that there are 0 deaths that this may represent "agenda" based analysis. Science is never set is stone. It is always about continued hypothesis, debate and questioning.
As I said, your objection to COVID vaccine is based on a belief system, which I have no hope or interest in dissuading you from. I do however, wonder why you keep trying to insert isolated facts, such as numbers from VAERS to support your belief. From the CDC website:
"While very important in monitoring vaccine safety, VAERS reports alone cannot be used to determine if a vaccine caused or contributed to an adverse event or illness. The reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental, or unverifiable. In large part, reports to VAERS are voluntary, which means they are subject to biases. This creates specific limitations on how the data can be used scientifically. Data from VAERS reports should always be interpreted with these limitations in mind."
Experts rely of accurate, verifiable data. You do not. You cherry-pick tidbits of fact, rumor and opinion and try to craft it into some sort of reasoned argument. Nope.
toomuchbaloney
16,036 Posts
Yikes
Most of that is just too "out there" for this forum and specifically this thread.
Otherwise, yeah, I'm familiar with the way that data is manipulated to create a false impression of risk to the public. Why not add up the deaths from all firearms since you add up all of the deaths from any sharp object?
Yes, I agree that our values are different when I will accept vaccination to create a safer and healthier society and you currently will not while musing about dissolving our republic.