Would you seriously consider quitting nursing

UM Review RN, ASN, RN · Dec 30, 2004

"They'll suck the life out of you" is something I was told when I first started nursing.

And when a doc yells at me when I believe I'm doing backflips to help a patient, that's exactly how I feel.

Yelling docs don't get called at the first s/s, I confer with my colleagues about what time might be better for him. We check the chart carefully and explore other options. Meanwhile, tick-tock...

Usually I get the flack for the day shift Unit Sec who forgot to put an order in, or for a different shift's nurse who didn't get an order implemented in what the Dr. believes :rolleyes: is a timely fashion.

I have no idea how to get the message out to the docs that when they order PRBCs to run over 6 hours (????!!!!! :uhoh3: ) it is NOT POSSIBLE, even with the doctor writing the order. I don't know how the docs think it's ok to yell at me about failings of other shifts at 0300 when the patient needs an UNRELATED treatment.

But it affects me. It hurts to hear that when you expected to hear, "Good save!"

It affects the communication that I have with that doc and therefore, it ultimately could affect patient care. I could then see how taking years and years of this kind of treatment might wear me down and cause me to quit nursing eventually.

So how does it REALLY affect you?

jschut, BSN, RN · Dec 30, 2004

I have been yelled at by Dr's, and with me being a relatively new nurse, it really upset me...but I grew a backbone, one might say and decided one day as I was repeating the orders the Dr had given me, and he yelled at me, asking why he would order such a thing....I stated that I was simply repeating his orders to me to verify. He shut up and didn't yell at me any more.

I can't stomach arrogant Dr's!

LPN1974, LPN · Dec 30, 2004

Doctors yelling at me and abuse and mistreatment by my DON are the two reasons I'm getting out as soon as I get in my 28 years on my job. I have too much invested to leave now, but, YES, when I hit 28, I'm leaving. I will draw a retirement check at that time, and I don't know what else I will do, but I will find something, where I won't have to put up with people yelling at me, or talking down to me, or rolling their eyes at me or other people.

I CAN HARDLY WAIT!

I have 3 years and 4 months left.

SmilingBluEyes · Dec 30, 2004

I am seriously quitting bedside nursing for many reasons but it boils down to one simple point:

I can't be the nurse I entered the profession to be.

Too many many constraints on my time at the bedside due to increasing paperwork (despite computerization of charting and med administration)----and too much verbal and passive-aggressive abuse from some physicians and certain coworkers----well, ya know what, it adds up to quite a bit of frustration and a block to my being the nurse I intended to. I am seriously considering my options nowadays. And very sad about this, as I truly love nursing..................

the way it should be, anyhow.

UM Review RN, ASN, RN · Dec 30, 2004

I have been yelled at by Dr's, and with me being a relatively new nurse, it really upset me...but I grew a backbone, one might say and decided one day as I was repeating the orders the Dr had given me, and he yelled at me, asking why he would order such a thing....I stated that I was simply repeating his orders to me to verify. He shut up and didn't yell at me any more.
I can't stomach arrogant Dr's!

But suppose you had to put up with this behavior over a period of years. Would you seriously consider quitting nursing because of the negative effects of this treatment on you and your practice?

GingerSue · Dec 30, 2004

I found that in community nursing, the doctors were respectful, responsive, and open to our suggestions re: treatments (just a couple of phone calls involved inappropriate doctor responses). Whenever I would call and idenitfy myself and organization, the receptionists would always put me through to the doctors. I guess I'm just suggesting - consider community nursing as an option. I have only good to say about my (former) community nurse co-workers - I do not recall hearing ANY negative remarks from co-workers about co-workers. Actually I heard positive. I even remember saying to one of my psych nurse co-workers (when I went to work in psych for a while and heard this complaining about "no respect") - I replied "you'll get respect if you work in community nursing" - and that was my experience. I would definitely consider going back into community nursing!

Miss Ludie · Dec 30, 2004

The doctors seem to get away with a lot, but it's the disrespect of managers and directors that crushes your (my) soul for Nursing. The attitude of "nurses are a dime a dozen, a monkey could do that, work smarter not harder"....etc. Once the Ivory tower elevator opens to (SOME not all) of the upper level positions...they seem to forget where they came from. That is what makes me consider an exit.

leslie :-D · Dec 30, 2004

angie-

why do you have to tolerate this abuse for years?

is this one specific doctor you're referring to?

i feel pretty confident in saying that this does not happen all the time and everywhere....

personally, i have no problem confronting tyrannical mds but they are the exception and not the norm....

what about finding another job?

leslie

redshiloh · Dec 30, 2004

OK I actually have a brag on this one. We used to have a service chief that would yell for no apparent reason. But now we have the nicest, best, smartest doc as our chief. The day we were all at bedside and he actually asked for and listened to our opinions was a day I will never forget. It was the FIRST time a doctor had asked me what I thought.

To be honest though, get more abuse from nurses than docs.

UM Review RN, ASN, RN · Dec 30, 2004

why do you have to tolerate this abuse for years?
is this one specific doctor you're referring to?

actually, this discussion was fueled by this article and several threads on this bb about how docs treat nurses. here's the article. yes, i know it's old, but it's still very valid.

i get yelled at on the average of about once a month by different docs who have to be called in the middle of the night. management is very supportive of my complaints. however, each time it happens, it takes something out of me and i can see it affects my coworkers also. so i wondered how deeply we were affected and how it affected patients as well as decisions to leave nursing.

https://registration.philly.com/reg/login.do?url=http://www.philly.com%2fmld%2fphilly%2fliving%2fhealth%2f3413398.htm

doctors behaving badly may drive nurses away

by merritt mckinney

new york - (reuters health) - even though the us is in the middle of nursing crunch, with an estimated 126,000 unfilled nursing positions, many physicians do not realize that their own bad behavior may be driving some nurses from the field, according to the results of a new survey.

"one of the things we are concerned about is the nursing shortage," the report's author, dr. alan h. rosenstein, the medical director of vha west coast in pleasanton, california, told reuters health. as administrators struggle to deal with the ramifications of the nursing shortage, they must focus not only on recruiting new nurses to the field but also on retaining current nurses, he said in an interview.

the relationship that physicians have with nurses can have a "profound" effect on whether nurses choose to stay in the field, he said.

many doctors seem unaware of that, suggest the results of the survey of 1,200 nurses, physicians and hospital administrators. though nearly 93% of all respondents had witnessed disruptive behavior by a physician, doctors were significantly less likely than nurses and executives to believe that such incidents have an important influence on nurses' morale, according to a report in the june issue of the american journal of nursing.

about 31% of all respondents knew of a nurse who had left their hospital as a result of a physician's disruptive behavior.

nurses were also more likely than physicians to believe that doctors do not value their input and collaboration as much as they should. and nurses were more likely than doctors and executives to feel that nurses do not have enough administrative support to deal with conflicts with physicians.

nurses reported several barriers to reporting problems with physicians, including intimidation, concerns about retaliation and a belief that nothing would be done about the complaint, the report indicates.

solving the problem will require a "multifaceted approach," according to rosenstein. doctors and administrators "must make an effort to cultivate a more supportive environment, one in which nurses and nursing care are valued and respected."

however, other factors that contribute to low morale among nurses, such as cutbacks, scheduling issues and mandatory overtime, must be dealt with, the california physician added. educational programs aimed at fostering better relationships between nurses and physicians "can't be successful if the underlying factors aren't first addressed," he concludes.

but dr. diana j. mason, the editor of the journal, disagrees that troubles in the nurse-physician relationship cannot be worked out until other problems are tackled. there are several steps that can and should be taken right now, she notes in an editorial that accompanies the study.

among other things, mason suggests that hospitals study the state of nurse-physician relationships on their own wards and adopt a "zero-tolerance" policy towards all abusive employees. and nurses should be helped to develop the skills needed communicate effectively with physicians, mason suggests.

in addition, mason states, "nurses should stop referring to physicians as 'doctor so-and-so' while physicians address them by first names. whether we use last or first names, we must stop perpetuating such inequality."

and nurse-doctor relationships can also affect patient care, mason told reuters health in an interview. "we have research documenting that communication between nurses and physicians strongly shapes patient outcomes." she cited a 1986 study that found the nurse-physician communication was the leading predictor of patient mortality in intensive care units.

"nurse-physician communication is not just a matter of 'let's be polite to each other,'" mason said. "it's a matter of true teamwork with mutual respect for each provider's expertise that he or she brings to a patient's care."

in the interview, rosenstein said that he did not mean that immediate steps should not be taken to improve relations between nurses and doctors. instead, he said it is important to realize that this issue is just one of several related to nurses' morale.

"this is one piece," according to rosenstein. "other pieces have to be dealt with" as well, he said.

source: american journal of nursing 2002;102:7,26-34

leslie :-D · Dec 30, 2004

i strongly agree about zero tolerance policies and nurses learning how to effectively and assertively dealing with these types.

but 2 barriers mentioned in the article, which i do not understand are 1. fear of retaliation and 2. that nothing would be done about it anyway.

what could doctors do to retaliate as i'm thinking aloud.

and secondly, even if nothing is done about it, nurses need to cover their a$$es and document all of their interventions, including but not limited to conversations with the md that was contacted.

so if the md chooses not to act upon the data presented to him by a nurse, the md will be held liable- not the nurse.

so it would not be prudent for a nurse to hold that attitude that it wouldn't make a difference anyway.....

if hospital administration did implement and enforce this zero tolerance policy, i could see major changes with doctors quickly being humbled.

unfortunately, there are still too many nurses that are indeed, intimidated by doctors and could use a course in assertiveness and effective communication.

so for me personally, doctors yelling at me would never make me quit nursing as their obnoxious dispositions are the least of my professional problems....

are you considering leaving angie?