Would you seriously consider quitting nursing

Nurses General Nursing

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if you were treated badly--yelled at, disrespected, verbally abused--by the doctors you work with?

How does this treatment affect you? Does it affect patient care?

Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.

I don't think I would allow yelling doctors to suck the life out of me. Fortunately, I've never worked in an environment like that. Just a few bad seeds.

When I think of the stress I'm under, treatment by MDs is way low on the list.

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I don't think I would allow yelling doctors to suck the life out of me. Fortunately, I've never worked in an environment like that. Just a few bad seeds.

When I think of the stress I'm under, treatment by MDs is way low on the list.

It may not be the worst problem, but I feel for many nurses it IS 'another brick in the wall', another 'straw on the back' however one chooses to look at our career lives. JMHO . :o

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Call the Doc's house and ask to speak to their spouse. Tell them what kind of behavior is going on and ask the spouse how they handle the outbursts at home!

I had a credit agency after me one time for money I didn't owe. I found out who the manager was and tracked down his home phone. Talked to his wife several states away and told her how I felt about her husband's behavior. Must of scared the guy that I could or would do such a thing. Never heard from him again.

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Specializes in Utilization Management.
Call the Doc's house and ask to speak to their spouse. Tell them what kind of behavior is going on and ask the spouse how they handle the outbursts at home!

That idea might've worked once, but it seems to me that if you used this idea and then had to continue working with the person, the fallout would be incalculable. It might even be considered stalking.

The OP's question is dealing with more than one doc and talking about an ongoing situation rather than an immediate crisis. I'm not looking for solutions so much as I'm looking at your inner response to the situation.

For instance, whenever I have a doc yell at me for calling him (it's usually a him, although it has in a couple of cases been a "her"), I'm usually unprepared for that kind of behavior because I'm so focused on the patient's problem that I have decided the patient's condition actually does warrant a 3 a.m. phone call.

At the point the doc begins yelling, I'm held hostage to that behavior for the sake of getting something done. No matter how I respond, I always feel upset after having to deal with the outburst on top of a very sick patient.

Writing up the doc in no way diminishes the feelings of genuine hurt that I feel when I get yelled at.

Nurses have typically been taught to expect this behavior, yet the article suggests that this behavior is such a turn-off that nurses have left their jobs over that kind of treatment.

After all the years of education, training, and experience that one invests in nursing, I came to believe that "Doctors Behaving Badly" has a more significant effect on us than we say.

I think this was brought home to me by witnessing someone else getting yelled at a couple of weeks ago. As an observer, I watched the stress plainly coloring her face as she responded to the attack, holding back tears.

But it affected every nurse on the unit. Our conversation stopped. We all wanted to defend her. The emotions I felt were quite a lot like watching a fistfight.

The situation was addressed and will be addressed again, but still....I can plainly remember how awful the whole scene was, and how strong my emotions were, and how we were all affected. For now, if I had to deal with it constantly from the same doc or if the place I worked in did not deal with it and put a stop to it (my hospital WILL revoke the privileges of these docs), I would definitely hotfoot it to a different place. But who knows? One day, that might be "the straw" that causes me to leave nursing.

So instead of simply complaining and comforting nurse-victims, I wanted to actually try to put some plan of action into place that might stop the problem before it got entrenched in the workplace culture.

One suggestion of mine was to record all incoming phone calls, for instance.

Paper and pen rarely reflect the tone of the words. Even relating an incident verbally doesn't quite cut it. But a recording that could be played back to the offender might make some of these Jekyll-Hyde types think twice.

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Ya know, we have security cameras and many customer service calls are recorded and monitored as well. I LIKE the idea of recording calls at the desk, altho it would likely be a violation of HIPAA).

Recording calls sure WOULD be a deterrent to ugly physician behavior (as well as to those staff members who abuse phone privileges for personal calls) ;)

I have walked up behind a nurse and stared down a doc who was yelling...and have agreed to be a witness when she 'wrote him up' and complained. So many nurses will NOT stick together like this however. Those nurses who WILL stick together are the ones who will change a culture...as most management WILL respond to groups of nurses with legitimate concerns in my experience.

IMO it boils down to nurse solidarity...again.

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Specializes in Utilization Management.
I LIKE the idea of recording calls at the desk, altho it would likely be a violation of HIPAA).

If you follow that line of thought, submissions to Risk Management could be considered a violation too, couldn't they? So frankly, I don't see how it'd be a violation because it's between caregivers and management, and ultimately would improve patient services.

Besides, our calls to the doc are recorded via the answering service. A lot of info gets passed there even though those operators are not even close to being licensed or directly involved in the patient's care.

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Once I called with low K+ and ^PVC's and was told, "Don't worry about it."

Answer, "I am reporting my assessment of your patient, NOT me psychological state."

BRILLIANT!!!!! Absolutely brilliant!! I love this response--this should become a standard pharase in every bedside nurse's vocabulary. I'll bet it left this doc literally at a loss for words.

I have to say that in the operating room, I have pretty much always worked with great docs--they consider us part of the team, and treat us accordingly. If someone behaves like a jerk at any given time, they are called on it on the spot. Usually it has NOTHING to do with us--it's usually frustration with the system (especially when I worked for an HMO) or the fact that they had a fight with their spouse that a.m., or the fact that they know this patient or another is going to die, despite all their best efforts. People are human--and O.R. nurses are pretty thick skinned. Plus, our mutual enemy is middle and upper management--bunch of yes-men and women--so we have to stick together against them.

I've done teaching and consulting, as well as travel assignments, (with those at least you know you're not stuck there forever, and you always learn a few or maybe MANY new ways of doing things) as a way of getting away from full time hospital nursing. I agree with other posters who said that the people who suck the life out of you are not so often physicians, but other high-drama nurse colleagues and, again, management--especially the clueless ones who have not done any actual nursing in years--or, for some, EVER.

I never could figure out why anyone invented middle management, particularly--they all seem like a bunch of bean counters who can't set priorities very well---not very good nurses.

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Specializes in Utilization Management.
they all seem like a bunch of bean counters who can't set priorities very well---not very good nurses.

I agree. But then, they were probably hired precisely for their bean-counting abilities.

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Specializes in Pediatrics.
but suppose you had to put up with this behavior over a period of years. would you seriously consider quitting nursing because of the negative effects of this treatment on you and your practice?

i'm the type that 'moves on' when i don't like what's going on (and have done it quite often :chuckle ). it's usually more nursing related. i personally would not be able to tolerate that for years. fortunately, i've never really had any md issues as you've described. of course, i've gotten the occasional 'why can't you hang the blood, platelets, chemo, k-rider, amphoteracin and tpn through 2 lumens in the next two hours?', or 'why haven't you given that med yet (because pharmacy has not sent it up, or still waiting for a lab value, and the like (usually from residents, who don't have a clue). not too much ranting and raving (more of that from the nurses, sadly :o ).

i suppose if i had these problems, i would first find a different area of nursing to work in. if it continues to be a pattern, then i would perhaps think 'maybe i'm in the wrong profession'.

i think floor nursing is always going to be like that, but it really depends on the floor.

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The low potassium at 2 am is always a problem isn't it? I've been complaining for years to docs..."If you don't want to be awakened about a K of 2 at 2 am, then give me a protocol ahead of time" Do you guys think I LIKE calling you at 3 am? Please." :rolleyes:

FINALLY they have listened and I now (15 yrs later) see protocols in ICU!!! I guess they're just recognizing nurses DO have a brain and can follow parameters and protocols for disease processes like COPD, vents, DKA, K imbalance....in fact we LOVE them. :)

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At the point the doc begins yelling, I'm held hostage to that behavior for the sake of getting something done. No matter how I respond, I always feel upset after having to deal with the outburst on top of a very sick patient.

Writing up the doc in no way diminishes the feelings of genuine hurt that I feel when I get yelled at.

Nurses have typically been taught to expect this behavior, yet the article suggests that this behavior is such a turn-off that nurses have left their jobs over that kind of treatment.

No one should be taught to "expect this behavior" but should be taught what steps are in place to prevent it from happening. Some of these guys are bullies and bullies usually pick on people they perceive as weak. However, I'm 6'3" and while I'm a peace-loving man, I welcome the practice to give bullies an "educational moment." I've also seen small women who would not take crap from anyone. I've visited my 5'1" teacher wife at her school before and saw her with a big guy up against a wall while she ripped him a new one. She's also gone into the boys locker room when one kid thought he could escape there, sending naked boys scrambling for cover. I guess it's all a matter of personalities and how you feel about the situation. Point is, your "reputation" could mean the difference between taking a beating or having others know what will happen if they take you on. And of course, the hospital should have a tight policy in place to handle these situations.

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It's bad enough that we have to deal with abuse from patients who are sick and cranky, but to be disrespected by doctors and/or management is the icing on the cake. We are the backbone of many institutions....large and small...but few people seem to realize it. My current employer makes me want to start my own business, because rules constantly change depending on the stress level of the doctor. When you are treated in this fashion, you find it hard to develop loyalty. I strongly believe this is a major factor in the nursing shortage. When I see nurses who retire early or change careers, I can't blame them because I feel their pain!

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