Would you seriously consider quitting nursing

ReinventingMyselfAgain, MSN, RN · Jan 3, 2005

If I made the error you can yell all you want. What kills me is when the residents make an error, omit a lab draw order the wrong medicine. Often times the nurse is the one who heres about it. Or if the order is illegible or omitting information and the pharmacy
refuses to fill it. The Nurse is required to call the Doctor and take a telephone order to correct it. I've had Doctors yell at me for bothering them, as if it's my fault the order was written incorrectly

Of course, they fail to realize that they will go down with us, not to mention that we will not give the med if it's not written correctly, and it will not be dispensed by pharmacy. And they wonder why pts. do not respond to their meds quicker (well we need to give it to them to respond to it :uhoh3: )

Or when pharmacy call the nurse and says they need ID approval for that antibiotic. And we have to 'bother' the doc to get it done. And if it's not given on time, who's fault is it? (PS- where I work there are no telephone orders, so you can imagine how much we love to 'bother' the docs.

RN4NICU, LPN, LVN · Jan 3, 2005

Would that alone be enough to drive me from the bedside? No. If that were the only problem I encountered with acute care, I would be able to find a solution for that. It's funny, because as a new nurse, I used to hang up on physicians who were rude to me. Over the years, I was "taught" by management and other senior nurses that was inappropriate(meaning that just sitting there and taking it was the right thing to do). *sigh* God help us but nurses can be their own worst enemy. I have come full circle in a way in that I now know better and I would never take crap from a physician as I have in the past.
But I have left the bedside because of the overall atmosphere in the field today. The problem of abusive physicians is not only allowed, it is officially sanctioned under the guise of "customer service" and other crap like that. Like Deb, I am no longer allowed to nurse the way I want to because the importance of my ability to get my patients the corect flavor jello is more valued than what I do to save their lives. Hence I am expected to focus all my energies on that type of nonsense while the resources I need to provide good patient care are not provided and not appreciated. You know something is wrong when you are working short on the floor and the nurse manager hires a full-time nurse to walk the floors and ask patients whether or not the nurse recited her script every time she came into the room or how they would rate thier "service". I find that unacceptable. I am not a pillow fluffer and while I find satisfaction in making my patients comfortable and happy, that is not enough to fulfill me. It's frustrating and it is not what I went to college for.

I totally agree with you. That isn't what I went to college for either and it IS absolutely unacceptable. That NM must be a real idiot if s/he can't figure out that the "service" would be improved by hiring another nurse to take patients rather than to walk playing customer service rep (DUH). I do not play a nurse on TV, I AM a nurse - I don't recite scripts.

BTW, my hospital was going along with the scripting thing as well -- it lasted about 2 minutes because no one would do it.

Quickbeam, BSN, RN · Jan 3, 2005

I've been a nurse for 20 years and have worked in many varieties of roles. After hospital nursing, I went into Occ Health, case management and now community health. I was amazed at how much better I was treated in industry, insurance and community work as compared to the hospital setting. Respect, valuing of my opinion, chance to work independently....I was blown away by the status improvement and the general quality of life bump I got. Of course these jobs paid less than hospital work. And I loved floor nursing. But I'd never go back. No one has ever screamed at me since I left the hospital!

Nursinist · Jan 3, 2005

if you were treated badly--yelled at, disrespected, verbally abused--by the doctors you work with?
How does this treatment affect you? Does it affect patient care?

I have been in your shoes many times!!!! How I wish someone could have given me the answer. You are the only one who can decide what is right for you. First, I would ask you to take a deep breath every time this happens. Next, make up a signal to tell yourself that YOU are the one who controls how you respond to these idiots!!! ( I slap my thigh). This signal reminds me of why I am a nurse and how important I am.... The only way to thwart a Bully is to stand strong against them...This may be as simple as walking away from them when they are in their Tirade mode stating..."I will return when you can control yourself"...Remember to hold your head high, what you do as a nurse is so crucial for you patients...don't give in to the bullies!!!! Call them on their behaviour....their are plenty of self-help books out there. I also use aromatheraphy to help me. a great web site is naturesgift.com.

mattsmom81 · Jan 3, 2005

I've been a nurse for 20 years and have worked in many varieties of roles. After hospital nursing, I went into Occ Health, case management and now community health. I was amazed at how much better I was treated in industry, insurance and community work as compared to the hospital setting. Respect, valuing of my opinion, chance to work independently....I was blown away by the status improvement and the general quality of life bump I got. Of course these jobs paid less than hospital work. And I loved floor nursing. But I'd never go back. No one has ever screamed at me since I left the hospital!

What a nice positive post...thank you Quickbeam. Any advice for facility nurses who are contemplating a move from the bedside into the roles you have explored? I doubt I can ever do facility work again, had reached my limit and was literally having panic attacks...so if/when I do return to work it will likely have to be a different role...nice to think our 20 yrs of nursing can be valuable in another setting. :)

VickyRN, MSN, DNP, RN · Jan 3, 2005

What a nice positive post...thank you Quickbeam. Any advice for facility nurses who are contemplating a move from the bedside into the roles you have explored? I doubt I can ever do facility work again, had reached my limit and was literally having panic attacks...so if/when I do return to work it will likely have to be a different role...nice to think our 20 yrs of nursing can be valuable in another setting. :)

mattsmom81, have you considered becoming a nurse educator or clinical instructor? I'm sure with all your wealth of experience and lifetime knowledge, you would be awesome. You would have to return to school for some more education, though. Not sure what the educational requirements are in Texas; most states require a BSN for adjuncts on the clinical floors.

ReinventingMyselfAgain, MSN, RN · Jan 3, 2005

Your right angie o plasty doctors don't yell at each other, the nurses hear it when two different specialtys conflict. Example, I had a patient who had been admitted with a GI bleed. The patient also had a cardiac history and was having chest pain. Doctor treating chest pain ordered qd aspirin. Doctor treating GI upset about Qd aspirin being ordered. Nurse caught in the middle. Even though I had not given it GI upset that he had recieved medication. Blamed nurses but not the doctors who had ordered it

I've been in that situation before. Almost always involves surgeons. God forbid they should communicate with each other. No, use us as the midlle man :angryfire

ReinventingMyselfAgain, MSN, RN · Jan 3, 2005

I like the response posted on another thread, called it a "code orange". When a doc started berating somebody, all the staff would stop doing whatever (nurses, techs, secretaries, EVERYBODY), surround them, fold their arms and just stare with a "what in the world are you doing?" at the offender, who would then have a very large audience for their tantrum. Said the doc would get red and flustered, shut up and walk away. :chuckle

I like that one. If you give in to an @$$hole, they will keep doing it. Here you don't even have to say anything, the nonverbal cues are enough.

ldkrn · Jan 5, 2005

OK I actually have a brag on this one. We used to have a service chief that would yell for no apparent reason. But now we have the nicest, best, smartest doc as our chief. The day we were all at bedside and he actually asked for and listened to our opinions was a day I will never forget. It was the FIRST time a doctor had asked me what I thought.
To be honest though, get more abuse from nurses than docs.

Bingo. It is not doctors who abuse us. Most of them don't even think about us that much, or at least not nearly as much as we think about them. In 17 years of nursing-admittedly most of that in home care and now education-I can think of maybe two times I was spoken to disrespectfully by a physician, and one of them was just an arrogant bunghole that everyone hated. Usually it's the whining, *****y barbs from your peers that you have to put up with every day that wear you down, and was the prime reason I left acute care nursing-NOT the behavior of the physicians.

tshores · Jan 5, 2005

Probably a lot depends on how closely you work with doctors. In SICU, you work with a lot of surgeons and just about every other specialty--and some of them are extremely arrogant. Yes, once in a while the nurses will have disagreements in our unit, but 99.9% of the time it's the doctors who are doing the yelling and acting like children having tantrums. Most of the docs we work with don't do that and they're a great bunch of doctors, but a few still do. One pulmonologist yelled and carried on at a nurse because she told him a cardiologist was on the phone for him--but he was writing in his progress notes and didn't want to be bothered. :angryfire I think they just need to get over themselves.

If most of the doctors (or nurses) were like that, sure I'd quit bedside nursing. Who could maintain their sanity in that kind of environment?

Midwest4me · Jan 5, 2005

Yes, I think such poor treatment can affect a nurse(especially if one has a poor self-esteem to start with) but it's up to each nurse to make sure it does NOT affect patient care.

I used to consider quitting nursing when I was working LTC so I left that abusive(in so many ways--co-workers and MDs) environment. I LOVE my job in community nursing (group homes) so much now; it's wonderful to have 3-5 clients and 2-3 staff on board to help with those few clients.

It's one thing to put up with abusive patients. We should NOT have to put up with it from staff and MDs. Good luck in your search!

mattsmom81 · Jan 5, 2005

When the docs get nasty I've always directed their attention BACK to the patient. Now I work critical care, so when your patient is critical and the doc is wasting time ranting, it is especially frustrating. Several groups of specialists routinely browbeat night nurses everytime they call...no matter what. Over time, listening to these tirades wears a person out. Trying to problemsolve and getting nowhere wears one out. So many docs are frustrated and expect nurses to be their whipping boy. If management has allowed it to take place for decades, and nurses will not support each other, we will have difficulty changing the culture.

What I see out there? Nurses who instead of backing up another nurse when she is verbally abused by a doctor, say "Well I don't have any problems with him...". If we go to our nurse manager the same will result, or we are told to 'just get along'. The focus becomes the NURSE vs the abusive physician. I see this sometimes with patient and family situations as well. Which is why I sometimes refer to my workplace as 'dysfunctional' and nurses as their own worst enemies.

I'm sure not every facility is as bad as my last employer...but this takes place in some form everywhere I've worked in my parts for sure.