Women's Right to Choose

Nurses General Nursing

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I haven't seen this conversation come up on AllNurses, even after Scrubs Mag addressed the erosion of women's right to choose. I apologize if this is too much of a hot-button issue to open up for discussion, but I'm curious as to where folks on here stand when it comes to the increase in states passing restrictive abortion laws, in some cases nearly eliminating it altogether. If the mods are afraid, like I am (especially after seeing how some of the Facebook discussions devolved after Scrubs Mag posted their article there), that this can't remain a civil discussion, please feel free to take it down now. I just feel that this is an important discussion that needs to take place. After Missouri Rep. Barry Hovis spoke of the vast majority of rape being date rape and "consensual rape", Virginia State Sen. Steve Martin (R) stated "A pregnant woman is just a “host” that should not have the right to end her pregnancy", and VP Pence's comments about being "proud to be part of pro-life administration", I'm feeling increasingly disturbed about this country's lack of regard toward women.

Specializes in School nursing.

This entire thread makes me very glad and proud I teach comprehensive sex education to MS and HS children (I'm a school nurse.)

Education is so, so important. Access to health care and contraception and STI testing. Instructions on how to select and/or use contraception. A true understanding of the reproductive system (both male and female) is a must. Learning to respect those bodies is also a must. Yet sex shaming, especially for women, is still a thing. While the healthiest choice for teens is to not have sex (and yes, abstinence is actually a huge piece of comprehensive sex education), if they do choose to have sex, they deserve the education and access to contraception/barrier methods to keep themselves healthy.

If you haven't, check out the school in your neighborhood. Do they offer comprehensive sex education to students? If not, they should. (I could get a soap box here, but I won't.)

But even with this, I'm worked with teens facing an unwanted pregnancy. I've seen them choose to have a baby, keep it. I've seen them choose to have a baby, give it up for adoption. And I've seen them choose to have a abortion. And I've supported them through each choice and glad they had proper medical care for each of these choices. Because they each deserved it, with the great care and compassion they thankfully received.

11 Votes
Specializes in kids.
28 minutes ago, JenTheSchoolRN said:

But even with this, I'm worked with teens facing an unwanted pregnancy. I've seen them choose to have a baby, keep it. I've seen them choose to have a baby, give it up for adoption. And I've seen them choose to have a abortion. And I've supported them through each choice and glad they had proper medical care for each of these choices. Because they each deserved it, with the great care and compassion they thankfully received.

This, eight days a week. I have seen all three as well. No where is it my place to judge. It is my (our) job to support.

9 Votes

Why don't women prevent a lot of these babies by just not having unprotected or out-of-wedlock sex?

How does having sex only in wedlock prevent unwanted pregnancy???? It doesn't. Putting this on women is offensive, but given your posting history, not at all surprising.

And don't say men should prevent them. Of course they should, but it's the women who must do most of it, biologically speaking.

Patently FALSE. Men are JUST as responsible for causing PREGNANCY as women. What a misogynist, antiquated point of view.

11 Votes
On 5/27/2019 at 8:12 PM, blondenurse12 said:

Certainly a polarizing topic but let's call a spade a spade. Abortion has nothing to do with 'life' and everything to do with controlling women and limiting economic mobility. The AL politicians said it themselves, that those embryos in labs aren't life, only embryos in female hosts are worthy of protecting.

I don't believe in the zombie sky king but even if you do, the bible says life does not begin until the first breath. It further advocates to 'dash a baby's head against stones' in certain cases and loads of other pleasantry.

Let's talk about facts. 2/3rds of abortions happen before 8 weeks, 89% before 12 weeks. 59% are already mothers, 75% are poor or low income, 62% have a religious affiliation, and 51% of women were using contraceptives when they became pregnant.

Many times, all I hear is 'well she should have kept her legs closed' or 'now it's her responsibility'. Do you hear how misogynistic and stupid you sound? Pregnancy is NOT a punishment for sex. No one seems to care that men flit away, off to impregnate some other woman, never to pay a cent in child support. Honestly, if you want to stop abortion then men should get mandatory vasectomies and when they are ready to procreate, they can get it reversed. Irresponsible ejaculation causes 100% of pregnancies. A woman can only get pregnant a few days per month and only birth 1 child per year but men can potentially father more than 365 children in a year.

About 12 years ago, I worked for a Catholic health system. I was taking hormonal birth control and I was having migraines with aura and became hypertensive. My GYN was concerned that I might have a stroke so I had to stop taking it. After some research, I decided an IUD was my best choice. It was considered 'abortion' and was not covered by my insurance. I made too much to qualify for an assistance as a RN. It cost $1200 and at the time, it was almost 3 weeks of my take home pay. I was recently out of school and had loans. I knew I couldn't afford a baby so I did it. I starved for 3 weeks, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to pay my bills.

This is what women have to deal with. To possibly die, to become pregnant and possibly die, or to suffer. No one seems to care about the mothers or hell, even the babies once they are born. To those who say 'just give up for adoption', do you have any clue how many kids are waiting in foster care? Instead of campaigning against abortion, campaign for resources for single parents, fund Planned Parenthood (because a very small part of their care is abortions), adopt kids in foster care. Literally do anything except forcing women to be incubators.

Excellent and well-written response. I honestly don't understand why any woman would support these laws. I have a family member who I'm currently at odds with over this issue. In her view she "cares about all human life," in my view she "doesn't support women's rights and doesn't care about grown fully-functioning human life." I think it's so naive to simplify this issue like she is -like the politicians are- by simply justifying these bills as moral high-ground representing people who care for "life." It's frustrating and upsetting.

This same family member's mother and grandmother both had abortions. I'm almost positive that she doesn't know and I will never tell her -but it would be a great argument to tell her that her life was directly affected by women's access to safe abortion.

6 Votes
20 hours ago, Persephone Paige said:

It's still better than nothing! Jeez, at least attempt to prevent pregnancy. And the foam helps pick up the slack with the condoms.

I hate a dialog that portrays women as victims. We are our biggest advocates, or our own worst enemies. If I were a nymphomaniac, with nothing but a Honda Kick & Go for transportation, I'd be damned if I'd get knocked up.

Have you actually investigated the numbers of abortions attributed to Rape, Incest and Maternal Health, vs the amount attributed to just 'whatever?' The differences are staggering. It's pathetic that any women would take so little responsibility for their own reproductive potential. These are not the women my daughters are like, or the women I want my granddaughters to become.

You want to empower women? Teach them that they have the power to not need permission from anyone for any abortion by seeing to it that they don't get pregnant. I did it, my daughter did it and God willing, my granddaughters will too. I cannot prevent tragedies, such as rape. But, I can send them to self defense classes.

Plenty of women get pregnant while using contraceptives. They are a lot larger than the 1% -rape/incest cases- you're arguing about.

In my opinion, 100% of abortions are 0% my business as to the reasons why the woman seeks it.

But should we outlaw chemotherapy too in cases of lung cancer in women who smoke? Should medical care only be available to the "responsible"? You, and others on the "take responsibility" boat miss the point, and once again place the entire burden of pregnancy on women. Also, you can't speak for all of the women in your family. You have no idea how many women have secret abortions. This is why it's imperative that access to safe abortions remain legal.

13 Votes
Specializes in CMSRN, hospice.
9 hours ago, Kooky Korky said:

Not having sex outside of marriage will cut down on a whole lot of unwanted babies.

Why is it the responsibility of society at large and of pro-lifers in particular to care for all of the unwanted babies that other people are creating? Why don't women prevent a lot of these babies by just not having unprotected or out-of-wedlock sex? Yes, I read your statistics above. They need to get much more effective contraception.

And don't say men should prevent them. Of course they should, but it's the women who must do most of it, biologically speaking. And men should support their children. We do have some mechanisms in place for them to be financially supportive, but it's often hit or miss.

Slaughter of the pre-born, burning them with saline, cutting them up with knives, sucking them to pieces with a vacuum force - these are not the answer. Murdering them once they are already born is so gruesome, so unthinkable that I see swastikas and the Inquisition when I envision such evil goings on. Herod's Murder of the Innocents, Rachel weeping for her children.

See the movie "Unplanned". by Abby Johnson.

I agree that a lot of men are total deadbeats and the planet would be better off without them, but that isn't real likely to happen any time soon. Until then, women, unfortunately, bear the most responsibility to prevent pregnancy, since women are the carriers of pre-borns.

I'm sure what I have said matters not, I just am venting. But maybe someone will take to heart my suggestion that sex is best inside marriage.

While working in juvenile hall, I saw one teenager who was having her 3rd AB. There were plenty of girls there who had had at least 1. Do you really think this is a good thing? Why are we not seeing to it that these girls get either sterilized or get the tremendously effective methods of contraception that we have these days? Or, God forbid, stop having sex until you are married.

Sooooo, you're insisting that women need to have babies out of wedlock and then refusing to offer help support these "unwanted babies" - your words. Do you see how that's sorta cray? Abortion IS a woman preventing unwanted pregnancy so YOU don't have to do a damn thing about it - God forbid you step up and participate since this is apparently YOUR belief. This attitude just reeks of disdain toward women who have sex. No woman should be punished for enjoying what men have always enjoyed without consequences.

7 Votes
On 5/28/2019 at 9:58 PM, nursej22 said:

They did. In 1973, Roe v. Wade. Perhaps you've heard of it.

Oh no. I was just born yesterday so I would have never known such Supreme court case was in existence.

Then again. I wonder what happened to the Dred Scott case?

Like I said. Let the Supreme Court decide on it.

2 Votes
Specializes in Pediatrics, Pediatric Float, PICU, NICU.

Married woman here. Former birth control pill user, now IUD owner here. STILL would have an abortion if I got pregnant because despite using all the "responsible" suggestions that are being thrown out here (birth control, monogomy in a married relationship), I STILL never want kids and that should ALWAYS be my choice.

14 Votes
10 hours ago, LilPeanut said:

If you do not want to be pregnant, that is exactly what it is.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/parasite

It derives nutrients from the mother, at her expense if needed, without any positive physical benefits. Emotionally, there are endless benefits, if the child is wanted. Otherwise, it continues to be a parasite.

Also, life is a terminal, sexually transmitted condition. ;)

Why do I feel like we are discussing two different things? ? when you say parasite I think of: tapeworm, pinworm, lice and ticks (gross). How are these host comparable to a fetus? ? I dont understand the logic here. Honestly.

When I was 9 yrs old my doc told me I had parasites and I was given meds. I got a chance to see those things a live - they are some scary monsters - I couldn't believe those thing were inside me; and how in the world did they get in there? gross

anyway - now I'm the mother of three lovely boys. seeing both leave my body I still dont get your logic. ? but thank you for taking the time to forward the link ? much appreciated.

image.thumb.png.544ee5032d18220ccaf4f4deda400e5a.png

1 Votes
18 hours ago, MunoRN said:

At the other end of the spectrum of life, someone who is brain dead appears no different structurally than someone who is not, are you saying you don't recognize that brain death involves a different level of "life"?

Interesting. Brain dead - so a person who is 'brain dead' will eventually return back to him/herself in a predictable period of time? I do believe the elderly should not be discarded. But I also think the circle of life should take its course. Scientist playing god is scary - no one really knows how much a person suffers while in lifesupport (laying there - eyes closed, unable to speak their mind, with multiple tubes, probably wishing we just let them go) just an opinion - no one really knows what they are thinking.

anyways - I'm not at all familiar with the term Brain Dead. I've heard some speak of out-of-body experiences but that's really it. so not sure where you want to go with this.

1 Votes

It's really hard for me to now change my views..

when I focus on the question: when does human life begin? If human life begins at a "certain point," then does that human life deserve to live?

I think politicians are shying away from that question as well.

1 Votes
32 minutes ago, Bjulissa19 said:

Interesting. Brain dead - so a person who is 'brain dead' will eventually return back to him/herself in a predictable period of time? I do believe the elderly should not be discarded. But I also think the circle of life should take its course. Scientist playing god is scary - no one really knows how much a person suffers while in lifesupport (laying there - eyes closed, unable to speak their mind, with multiple tubes, probably wishing we just let them go) just an opinion - no one really knows what they are thinking.

anyways - I'm not at all familiar with the term Brain Dead. I've heard some speak of out-of-body experiences but that's really it. so not sure where you want to go with this.

Brain death is both a medical and legal term. There is NO thinking once the brain is dead. This is not a coma, not a vegetative state, it is death of the brain tissue from which there is no recovery. The diagnosis of brain death is not taken lightly and must follow legally prescribed tests by more than one doctor after certain criteria have been met, at certain intervals. It's very thorough. I don't get your statement in the midst of a brain death discussion ("I do believe the elderly should not be discarded") because brain death occurs at all ages, due to trauma, hypoxia, any condition which causes blood flow/oxygen delivery to the brain to be disrupted long enough to cause irreversible cellular death.

How can a nurse not be familiar with the term "brain death"?

https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/conditionsandtreatments/brain-death

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2772257/

7 Votes
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