will universal healthcare ( in the usa) cut RN pay?

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I been hearing this debate off and on for a long time about how if Obama gets universal healthcare to go ( if he gets elected of course)though in the US that nursing pay will be cut dramatically. I would think this has to do with the fact that we would all be working for the government and that there will no longer be competition. There are many people in my nursing class that said they will leave nursing if thats the case. I also talked to several doctors that said the same thing about medicine in general. Im just curious if anyone has some good info about this. Thanks

Specializes in Med-Surg.

Is making generalizations about republicans and liberals really necessary, mature and productive?

I'm talking things like "words are the only compassion liberals can produce" and "...just like a republican...compassion only when it doesn't cost them anything..."

How can any bridges to understanding be built with such nastiness towards one another?

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Forget that most countries with socialized medicine have tax rates at or above 50%.....you only need to look home to see what is going to happen if we have socialized medicine....

Medicare and Medicaid. These programs limit what treatments you can have and no doctors want to take on these patients because of how little they are paid for their services. (So the government will have to force doctors to take socialized patients or make doctors government employees to avoid the issue.) The 'poor' and our seniors had to fight tooth and nail for prescription drug coverage. When they got it, Congress/President did not raise taxes. The net result? A large addition to the ever growing deficit. Ultimately, Obama has promised to raise our taxes to clear all this up. How nice of him.

Society goes from complaining that we didn't cover preventative care so now we pay through the nose for cures --> to --> look at how much we are paying in taxes already for their care! Do not reward bad choices! Let's not pay for transplants for those who abused their bodies. Let's not help those foolish smokers and drinkers....and then the obese. Why give expensive treatment to the elderly? They are going to die anyway! (That is why those in countries with socialized medicine come HERE to the US to get their needs met!)

Socialized medicine, like socialism in general, looks great on the surface, but in the end, is simply a red herring. Once started, you will never reverse that trend.

Case in point....my fiancee once lived with his now ex-w in Australia. He was the sole provider. He was losing almost 75% of his pay to taxes(partly due to the fact that he was a US citizen). :eek: At one point, he lost his job when the employer closed. He had to "go on the dole". He got more money from the government than he was earning in pay! To top it off, in Australia, if you are on the dole long enough (I am not sure whether my fiancee said 4 or 5 years), the government is required to purchase a house for you and your family. Now THERE is socialism in it's greatest form! There is a greater incentive NOT to work than there is to work! [side note: I applaud the Aussies though. The men could not believe that my fiancee chose to sit for a short time on the dole. (aka: a paid vacation!) As a matter of male ego, they work anyway! :up: Good for you mates!]

Communism failed because doctors were paid the same as garbage men. Garbage men earned the same whether they worked hard or goofed off. Productivity in the communist countries took a sharp fall. Wonder why?

Socialized medicine is the fist step on a very slippery slope we should all take a serious look at. Do we *really* want to go there?:down:

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Specializes in Pediatric ED;previous- adult Ortho/Neuro.
Don't worry the cut in your pay will be offset by the increase in your taxes. Socialism always brings everyone (except those making the rules) down to the lowest common denominator. So get ready for massive tax increases and very stagnant wages.

Except we are not a socialist society......capitalism is different obviously. The same socialized systems of other countries are not necessarily the answer for the US as we are a completely different country run very differently overall, and their's have flaws no doubt. There is some happy median possible though......

It will completely depend on exactly what is proposed, and even then the chances of anything close passing congress are next to none. There definitely has to be something better than what we currently have though, that's for sure.

Shouldn't, as nurses, we be supportive of some sort of system in which we are "allowed" to take care of all patients that need care, not just the ones who can afford to pay for it? Life is a right, not a privilege.

I'm sure I will lambasted for my thoughts, but oh well. :wink2:

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Specializes in Pediatric ED;previous- adult Ortho/Neuro.
The only place that people are guaranteed to be seen and treated, no matter how bad or minor their illness, is the ER. That's really sad.

Which is why in our Peds ED we are bogged down with kids that parents brought in for a fever or a bug bite, because they have no PMD to go to. When we discharge them with instructions to follow up with the Primary, they come back to us.

It's a flaw of our current system, and it sucks. WE (Emergency depts) are primary care for many many patients. There has got to be a better way.

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What about the working poor, you know earn too much to qualify for aid but not enough to be able to afford insurance? Scenerio: 30 yo single woman bartender gets pregnant, no employer sponsored insurance, certainly no private insurance. Would she qualify for WIC and gov't help? I know she wouldn't qualify for foodstamps.

My son has to deal with this exact thing. He isn't married, he isn't in a relationship, doesn't have kids....it's not just families that have to deal with this! He works 40+ hours per week for a small company that does not, by law, have to offer insurance to its employees, and he makes too much to qualify for Medicaid (here in Arizona, it's AHCCCS), but can't afford to purchase insurance on his own, especially with a pre-existing condition. The problem here is that he is a Type 1 diabetic (diagnosed at age 11...he's now 22) and the cost of insulin comes out to over $75 per week, plus syringes, test strips for his glucometer, doctor's visits (if he doesn't go to the doctor every 3 months for his HbA1C, they won't refill his insulin!), lab costs, etc. Plus proper nutrition required for a diabetic costs more than eating unhealthy! Something needs to be fixed in our health care system. It's not his fault (or anyone else's for that matter) that he developed diabetes as a child...but he has to suffer the consequences of paying for management of his disease. Some weeks, it's a decision between making his car payment (so he can get to his job) or paying for his insulin! What I am saying here is that it's not just the poor or the homeless, the alcoholics or the drug abusers, the single pregnant woman who didn't plan on getting pregnant or the families who have too many children...this could affect any one of us.

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Specializes in CDI Supervisor; Formerly NICU.

A 30 year old single woman who doesn't make enough to support herself sure shouldn't be getting pregnant. Her lack of personal responsibility doesn't entitle her to anything, in my mind, except maybe a 2nd job.

Pregnancy isn't some disease she catches off of a dirty commode seat.

BabyRN: Your son is free to go to work for an employer who offers health care coverage. We don't allow indentured servitude in this country anymore.

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A 30 year old single woman who doesn't make enough to support herself sure shouldn't be getting pregnant. Her lack of personal responsibility doesn't entitle her to anything, in my mind, except maybe a 2nd job.

Pregnancy isn't some disease she catches off of a dirty commode seat.

BabyRN: Your son is free to go to work for an employer who offers health care coverage. We don't allow indentured servitude in this country anymore.

*ROLL EYES*

So what if she is raped... Indentured servitude is quite alive and well.

It's called poverty.

:down::down::down:

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That's one thing I don't get. When I didn't have insurance, I NEVER went to the ER. I went to a walk in clinic and was billed. I'm not sure how they work now since I've had insurance for over 5 years but I would never go to an ER on a whim. Everywhere I've lived, I've found a walk in clinic that I could go. As a kid, I rarely went to the doctor and when I did my dad took me to a walk in clinic. My doctor's office has a walk in clinic that's open every day until 9pm. Sure the wait is horrid during flu season but it's much better than going to the ER for the flu. Once again, I just don't get the way some people think.

When CRNA...speaks of socialism, I believe they are referring to where our country will be if the proponents of UHC are elected in November. Liberalism is only a half step above socialism.

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First of all, have you seen what government jobs pay? A lot more than many of us are making. Plus better benefits. Competition can actually lower our pay because the companies are competing for business so they have to cut costs somewhere to stay competitive. It tends to be in wages. Supply and demand of nurses is what affects our pay more than anything. The docs would be paid less if they were true civil servants as in many countries, but I don't see that happening here. People who start these rumors do not understand economics.

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A 30 year old single woman who doesn't make enough to support herself sure shouldn't be getting pregnant. Her lack of personal responsibility doesn't entitle her to anything, in my mind, except maybe a 2nd job.

Pregnancy isn't some disease she catches off of a dirty commode seat.

BabyRN: Your son is free to go to work for an employer who offers health care coverage. We don't allow indentured servitude in this country anymore.

I agree except that not everyone is suited for college and a good job. Some people are needed to be the gardeners, babysitters, bartenders, and other jobs in tis world that often don't have health insurance.

Workers who do not have health care benefits should be given a medical card. This alone might get some people off of welfare. There is currently no incentive to get off welfare. If the government would help the working poor they would save money, we would save in taxes, and the economy would improve. Everyone wins. Instead they reward the poor who have better health care coverage than myself- though I work in health care and have a graduate degree.

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When CRNA...speaks of socialism, I believe they are referring to where our country will be if the proponents of UHC are elected in November. Liberalism is only a half step above socialism.

And conservatism is half a skip away from fascism but that's not the issue here.

why don't you come where I am, the only thing the walk in clinic does here is hand out old condoms and methadone...

Of course the argument that 'You' can do it so 'Everyone' else should be able to is the most common fallacy in any debate...

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I work in EMS at my other job, I have spoken to individuals from England, who have come here for MRI's and other tests. Many of these tests especially for cancer patients can take months to get. Several of the individuals I have spoken with have sold everything, and flew here for treatment and will not return to England, they gained employment here. They have said that even though it is expensive to get insurance in the US it is still far better han socialized medicine.

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