will universal healthcare ( in the usa) cut RN pay?

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I been hearing this debate off and on for a long time about how if Obama gets universal healthcare to go ( if he gets elected of course)though in the US that nursing pay will be cut dramatically. I would think this has to do with the fact that we would all be working for the government and that there will no longer be competition. There are many people in my nursing class that said they will leave nursing if thats the case. I also talked to several doctors that said the same thing about medicine in general. Im just curious if anyone has some good info about this. Thanks

Sure there are homeless people but not 20 million of them like the left would have us believe. The few that fall through the cracks could easily be taken care of without forcing everyone else in to some socialist health care scheme. Actually I would have less of a problem if individual states wanted to implement some sort of health care programs. That away if I didn't want to participate I could simply move to a state that did not force everyone into government mandated healthcare. Come to think of the libs in Oregon tried it and was soundly defeated. I also believe Massachussets is having some serious budget issues with their health care mandates as well.

Finally... A sensible answer. No was that so hard.

I could get with state mandated programs. Like I said. i am for ANYTHING that will improve what is not a great system.

Specializes in Emergency.

I was once at the grocery store and there was a lady in front of me who appeared to be in her mid-30's; she was wearing name-brand clothes, expensive shoes, had a fancy hairdo and wore flashy jewelry - and when it came time to pay for her groceries, she used food stamps.

This really peeved me. I was thinking "If she can afford such nice clothes, why can't she pay for her own groceries? Why should I end up paying through taxes?!?"

As she packed up her groceries, I was getting checked out by the store clerk - and a thin young lady (probably late 20's, early 30's) wheeled her cart behind me in line. She had two young children with her - both children were thin, had old clothes on, mis-matched socks; all three of them had a look of sadness in their eyes. As this timid lady started putting her groceries on the checkout counter, the "flashy" lady before me went up to the young lady, handed her a bag of her own groceries and 2 gallons of milk, and said "Here, you need this more than I do."

I realize that these groceries were never really "hers" in the first place (paid for by food stamps). However, poverty DOES have a face, children are starving in America today, and there are people who truly need help. So lets not forget that while we easily spot people who exploit the system, remember that its hard to spot those who really live in poverty because they try to hide their shame.

Today's health care system is defunct. The high cost of health care is being fueled by unpaid health care bills from unisured/underinsured patients, and this "fire" is only growing. The costs from unpaid bills are distributed among patients whose bills are being paid; a bill that normally was $100 can easily inflate to $200 due to this "shared" distribution of cost. Not only are patients who have private insurance paying their own monthly plan deductibles, out-of-pocket expenses, and prescription co-pays, but these private insured patients are also paying for unpaid medical bills from other patients on one end, while flushing taxes down the toilet on the other end to pay for those who receive gov't funded health care (medicaid, medicare, etc).

If you think about it, how much worse would it be if we tried another health care delivery system? If it didn't work out, you'd still have those who can pay, and you'd still have those who can't. Label it what you want, but this "what's mine is mine" attitude is so further from the truth. What's "mine" is also a portion of "what's yours", whether you believe it or not.

We all pay taxes so highways can be constructed/maintained. We all pay taxes to get rid of our garbage (and there's no sliding scale tax if someone throws out more garbage than someone else). Taxes keep our parks maintained and pay for law enforcement. There should be a backup plan to cover EVERYONE. If my husband lost his job, we'd lose our health insurance; we'd then make too much money to qualify for state assistance and we'd be left with thousands of dollars in health care costs. As I've said before, we're all vulnerable.

I would like to have a system in place to "catch" me should I need help, especially since I pay my taxes now. I don't like the idea of having paid tens of thousands of dollars taxes over the past few years only to have nothing available for myself should I truly need assistance.

Health care in America is like a backstabbing best friend - nice to your face, but ready to bite you in the butt when you turn your back...

Specializes in Peds.

I'd like to debunk some myths about universal health care if I may.

It's not free and we all know it's not free. But it does cover everyone, no matter who they are, where they're from or how much money they have. Money budgeted for health care is spent on health care, not on coding clerks, billing clerks, accounts receivable clerks, postage and the salaries of insurance company executives. The extra taxes I pay to universal health care are probably less than the average person with insurance in the US pays for their monthly premiums.

Our government pays for health care. It does NOT provide it or employ the people who do. The Canadian government has legislated the Canada Health Act, which lays out the rules for how health care is funded but decisions on care are made by the physician according to the patient's needs, NOT by the government (or some bloated insurance company that denies payment for even simple things because some T wasn't crossed on one of the twenty forms needed to seek authorization). I am employed by my health region, which receives its funding from the province; the premier is not my boss.

There is no shortage of people interested in health care careers. There are always more applicants for medical school and nursing school than there are seats. Nurses are paid very well in Canada; I made more than $100K last year and I don't do overtime. Universal health care does not equal inferior wages and benefits. The physicians I work with are definitely not struggling to pay off student loans while they lounge on the decks of their vacation homes in Kelowna or as they're checking out the museums in Rome. And to suggest that the quality of care here is somehow inferior is just wrong: our life expectancy, infant mortality, infectious disease rates, and many other indicators are all better than those south of the border.

No one in Canada has lost their home because they couldn't pay their hospital bills. Any bankruptcies associated with health care have come due to job loss secondary to being unfit to work and having insufficient savings to pay the day-to-day bills during a long illness, and not from huge hospital bills. Universal health care in Canada does not pay for outpatient drugs, except those on the life-saving-drug list (transplant meds and chemotherapy are a couple) but all inpatient drugs are covered. Many elective procedures are not covered, such as my mother-in-law's face lift, or my neighbour's boob job. But my elective hysterectomy was because I was losing two units of blood every cycle. Ambulance rides are not covered by most provinces; here the bill is $385 a trip. If an ambulance is called and not used, the person is still billed; EMS services are a municipal responsibility.

Of course our system is not perfect, there are things that need adjusting. But the majority of Canadians who have been consumers of health care here are satisfied with the care they received. Health care is not a profit driven venture here. Hospitals are not making money for shareholders, because we're all shareholders; they are paid for the care and services they provide and for upgrading equipment and hiring new staff as needed. So before you deride our system as being so lousy, at least know what you're talking about.

(CRNA2007, I find your arguments to be self-contradictory. You don't want your taxes to pay for health care for you neighbour but you're okay with them paying for his education. Where do you think the money for grants comes from?)

Specializes in CDI Supervisor; Formerly NICU.

Can you address the common belief that you have to wait on waiting lists for long periods of time in order to receive treatment/surgeries/etc? Is it true, or not?

Your own liberal MP came to the U.S. for her cancer surgery.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070914/belinda_Stronach_070914/20070914

How great is the health care up there? How much is a gallon of gas in Canada? How high are income taxes in Canada? How many illegal alliens utilize the health care system in Canada? Hows your economy doing? Don't know well here is the link for you.

http://www.hrmguide.net/canada/jobmarket/canadian-unemployment.htm

I'd like to debunk some myths about universal health care if I may.

It's not free and we all know it's not free. But it does cover everyone, no matter who they are, where they're from or how much money they have. Money budgeted for health care is spent on health care, not on coding clerks, billing clerks, accounts receivable clerks, postage and the salaries of insurance company executives. The extra taxes I pay to universal health care are probably less than the average person with insurance in the US pays for their monthly premiums.

Our government pays for health care. It does NOT provide it or employ the people who do. The Canadian government has legislated the Canada Health Act, which lays out the rules for how health care is funded but decisions on care are made by the physician according to the patient's needs, NOT by the government (or some bloated insurance company that denies payment for even simple things because some T wasn't crossed on one of the twenty forms needed to seek authorization). I am employed by my health region, which receives its funding from the province; the premier is not my boss.

There is no shortage of people interested in health care careers. There are always more applicants for medical school and nursing school than there are seats. Nurses are paid very well in Canada; I made more than $100K last year and I don't do overtime. Universal health care does not equal inferior wages and benefits. The physicians I work with are definitely not struggling to pay off student loans while they lounge on the decks of their vacation homes in Kelowna or as they're checking out the museums in Rome. And to suggest that the quality of care here is somehow inferior is just wrong: our life expectancy, infant mortality, infectious disease rates, and many other indicators are all better than those south of the border.

No one in Canada has lost their home because they couldn't pay their hospital bills. Any bankruptcies associated with health care have come due to job loss secondary to being unfit to work and having insufficient savings to pay the day-to-day bills during a long illness, and not from huge hospital bills. Universal health care in Canada does not pay for outpatient drugs, except those on the life-saving-drug list (transplant meds and chemotherapy are a couple) but all inpatient drugs are covered. Many elective procedures are not covered, such as my mother-in-law's face lift, or my neighbour's boob job. But my elective hysterectomy was because I was losing two units of blood every cycle. Ambulance rides are not covered by most provinces; here the bill is $385 a trip. If an ambulance is called and not used, the person is still billed; EMS services are a municipal responsibility.

Of course our system is not perfect, there are things that need adjusting. But the majority of Canadians who have been consumers of health care here are satisfied with the care they received. Health care is not a profit driven venture here. Hospitals are not making money for shareholders, because we're all shareholders; they are paid for the care and services they provide and for upgrading equipment and hiring new staff as needed. So before you deride our system as being so lousy, at least know what you're talking about.

(CRNA2007, I find your arguments to be self-contradictory. You don't want your taxes to pay for health care for you neighbour but you're okay with them paying for his education. Where do you think the money for grants comes from?)

Apparently the wait is not long for parliament members since they come to the U.S. for their surgeries. Typical liberal behavior they always exempt themselves from the rules they impose on everyone else.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070914/belinda_Stronach_070914/20070914

Can you address the common belief that you have to wait on waiting lists for long periods of time in order to receive treatment/surgeries/etc? Is it true, or not?

This is my point we all pay for these things but very few will be providing the healthcare for the many. Do you really believe that everyone is going to pay for their own healthcare? Socialist healthcare schems will put top marginal rates at 60-70%.

We all pay taxes so highways can be constructed/maintained. We all pay taxes to get rid of our garbage (and there's no sliding scale tax if someone throws out more garbage than someone else). Taxes keep our parks maintained and pay for law enforcement. There should be a backup plan to cover EVERYONE. If my husband lost his job, we'd lose our health insurance; we'd then make too much money to qualify for state assistance and we'd be left with thousands of dollars in health care costs. As I've said before, we're all vulnerable.

Specializes in CDI Supervisor; Formerly NICU.

I was tempted to mention that lady coming here for her treatment, but I decided against it. ;)

Specializes in NICU, PICU, PCVICU and peds oncology.
Can you address the common belief that you have to wait on waiting lists for long periods of time in order to receive treatment/surgeries/etc? Is it true, or not?

There are waiting lists, yes. If you want your hammer toes fixed next week, well it's not likely. But if you have a brain tumor pressing on your optic nerve, it'll be dealt with today. I believe Pedi-Gree pointed out that the system isn't perfect. As for the people who decide to go to the US and pay for treatment out of pocket, that's their choice and their money. They believe they deserve special treatment despite evidence-based decision making by fully licensed physicians that suggests they can wait a few days or weeks. Of course, once they've started their treatment plan they come back here to have the rest of it completed. And if it's a case of not having the capacity to perform urgently needed surgery, then the province will pay all those medical bills.

Do you honestly think that you aren't already paying for the health care of others? Your HMO premiums are paying for all the people who couldn't come up with their copays while the insurance company takes them to court.

Specializes in Emergency.
Your own liberal MP came to the U.S. for her cancer surgery.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070914/belinda_Stronach_070914/20070914

How great is the health care up there? How much is a gallon of gas in Canada? How high are income taxes in Canada? How many illegal alliens utilize the health care system in Canada? Hows your economy doing? Don't know well here is the link for you.

http://www.hrmguide.net/canada/jobmarket/canadian-unemployment.htm

...This is my point we all pay for these things but very few will be providing the healthcare for the many. Do you really believe that everyone is going to pay for their own healthcare? Socialist healthcare schems will put top marginal rates at 60-70%.

Perhaps she came here for surgery to avoid all the press and media drama, and protect her own privacy. I have no idea who she is, and I don't recall ever seeing a picture of her; she would become just another "patient", rather than a celebrity.

The hrmguide.net link you posted only refers unemployment rates and doesn't tie in the unemployment rates with problems in Canada's health care system. FYI: there is a global economic slowdown right now and a majority of countries (japan, canada, etc) are seeing economic changes.

The "many" are already providing free health care to the few. Socialism is different than UHC. Right now, almost everyone pays for their own house, so why would paying for health care be any different?

I'm all for promoting the health of everyone, even if it means adopting a UHC plan. Think about it: poor health causes stress, family dysfunction, decreased income, etc..., which is all tied into the GDP. FEAR is what keeps people from considering the issue of health care reform. If you have your needs taken care of, why put up with poor work conditions? Why work 50+hrs a week? Some people want us to be fearful so we remain compliant little soldiers who work our butts off from dusk til dawn, adapt poor dietary habits, and pop pills to "fix" the problem. And when we end up sick, suffering from life-threatening illnesses, out the door you go because there's always an eager little minion to replace you. Addressing the health care problem in America today would not make people less likely to work; it would make people less stressed because the wolf is no longer at the door.

Again, socialism is not UHC. If there's a way to provide health care focused on wellness while not jacking up our taxes, then what's the problem? Or if you prefer, lets continue letting people go without health care until they end up on dialysis, which means they automatically qualify for medicare and start out costing $30,000 per year of taxpayer's money to treat a PREVENTABLE disease (and the cost increases with catheter problems/sepsis, AV fistula placement, EPO therapy, transplantation, etc). I'd rather reallocate that money to help people get the care they need sooner, instead of later. However, that would be too simple, wouldn't it? Damn those "socialists" for injecting logic into the equation!

Specializes in ER,ICU,L+D,OR.
Can you address the common belief that you have to wait on waiting lists for long periods of time in order to receive treatment/surgeries/etc? Is it true, or not?

Everything Ive seen and heard is that it isn't much different than what we have now. Try getting something approved by an HMO or other carrier.

That's okay I got your back

I was tempted to mention that lady coming here for her treatment, but I decided against it. ;)
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