will universal healthcare ( in the usa) cut RN pay?

Published

I been hearing this debate off and on for a long time about how if Obama gets universal healthcare to go ( if he gets elected of course)though in the US that nursing pay will be cut dramatically. I would think this has to do with the fact that we would all be working for the government and that there will no longer be competition. There are many people in my nursing class that said they will leave nursing if thats the case. I also talked to several doctors that said the same thing about medicine in general. Im just curious if anyone has some good info about this. Thanks

Specializes in OB, Family Practice, Pediatrics.
In another thread, you decried "The poor outcomes you cite occur largely because irresponsible Americans fail to utilize the free, preventive healthcare that already exists."

Really!? Our poor outcomes are largely due to the progressive technological advances and interventions being over-utilized by doctors (Ultrasounds, epidurals, inductions; pitocin, repeat c-sections, without a medical indication.)

Other countries treat pregnancy and childbirth as the normal, natural event that it is; and they have better outcomes.

another big reason for poor outcomes is stress in the mother and subsequent prematurity, low-birth weight and rds.

Specializes in OB, Family Practice, Pediatrics.
Yes, complications do arise

"And how about personal accountability? How about not getting pregnant if you can't afford the medical bills or don't have insurance? How about getting a job that offers medical insurance?"

Many women do get pregnant while on birth control and couples get divorced. assuming that it is a "Personal accountability" issue is very judgmental. besides that, many jobs these days don't offer health insurance; That's a big reason for the talk of universal health insurance.

Again, complications do arise. I understand that you can't prepare for everything that life throws at you but you can try to prepare for it.

I understand that pregnancy happens. I got pregnant during my first year in college and got married. I could have gotten on gov't assistance but I chose to work more hours to get fulltime benefits. That's what I mean by personal accountability. I also got divorced, and once again I was in school. I chose to work fulltime so I could provide health insurance for my children and continued to go to school in the evenings.

Personal accountability can be trying to prevent these things from happening or it can be to make better decisions once they do happen. Accept that they didn't just happen to you, that you made decisions that brought you to where you are.

Many jobs don't offer health insurance but many jobs do. Own up to it, you make the choice to work for one that doesn't. OR you make the choice not to go out and seek individual health insurance. That is a choice that people make, for whatever reason.

That is the number one problem with today's society, everyone blames everyone else for what goes on in their lives.

Specializes in CCU & CTICU.
BabyRN: Your son is free to go to work for an employer who offers health care coverage.

If life was just that simple. Maybe Starbucks doesn't quite pay enough to make his rent. Or maybe he can't afford rent in a cheaper place and transportation to the job, since the cheaper place is probably in the middle of no-where. Maybe there isn't someone he can share a room with. Maybe he's not interested in living in a cardboard box.

You know, there is a degree of arrogance in this thread that is truly appalling. Even more so because this is a community for people who see suffering on a regular basis and have made a decision to care for these people. =/

Of course people shouldn't be able to just sit on their butts and expect rewards.

But honestly, let's think about this for a minute - who is UHC really going to benefit the most?

The poorest of the poor who aren't working often qualify for medicare or whatever gov't thingy. We're paying anyway.

The benefits are for the people who do have jobs, often several of them, which might not have insurance. And while they don't make what, I dunno, a CRNA does, they still make enough that they don't qualify for gov't assistance and end up uninsured because they can't afford the ridiculous prices (for the worst of worst) insurances. Not everyone chooses cable and a cell phone over healthcare. Some people get no choice. Food and rent are pretty pricey. And just because you have 5 jobs, doesn't mean you can afford anything outside of the local roach-motel.

Not everything is going to be solved by retraining, finding new jobs, taking the bus to work, or whatever making this UHC stuff moot point. (Never mind that it might help them take better care of themselves, so they don't get super sick and run up huge hospital bills they'll never be able to pay.)

And of course, we can't count on nothing bad is ever gonna happen to those who take the bus to work, never bought a car, have no kids, educated themselves and have great jobs and savings and all that and they're never going to end up being SOL. (Pan-Am? ENRON? Anyone?) In a profession where "**** happens," I would think some of you would know better. I've certainly seen enough lives get turned upside down when something "went wrong." Congenital defect repair didn't quite go as expected; I can't be the only one who's seen that several times, can I?

There's a new forum at the top for discussion of the hurricane. People who were displaced from disasters are all going to run out and find that abundance of new jobs that haven't gone overseas and they'll have insurance and their lives will be fine. No problem. As we all know, there's enough Starbucks on the planet, right?

Come'on everyone! Instead of the arrogance, how about we try some humility?

The system is obviously broken. My mom paid through the nose for healthcare for us when I was a student, only to be told they're denying

basic cares we were entitled to as per the contract. But Heaven forbid my mom was a minute late with their monthly payment. :rolleyes: All heck broke loose. And the docs who refused to see us as long as we had Cigna? No skin off Cigna's nose.

As long as docs and hospitals make money by seeing pts, nothing is going to change w/ UHC. Except maybe them making more money, as they won't have to fight for every reimbursment.

Ok, I think I've made enough of a fool of myself. I can't believe this thread is got me so riled up. I am a sad person today. -__-;;

How about NOT getting hurt when you don't have medical insurance. How about letting your kids starve to death because you can't afford them and they aren't mine.

How about saving us all some money and making parents educate their own children.

How about dumping Medicare and SS because your parents/grandparents should have been as smart as mine and actually prepared for retirement.

You see the silliness of that argument... It can never end. Everyone for themselves and to hades with everyone else...

Yea, that was SO the point of America. :)

I agree. Before I got pregnant with my first child, I got a full time job with insurance, saved up my vacation and sick time for maternity leave, tried to be responsible. You know what happened? In my third trimester the company went belly up and I was left out in the cold. I couldn't even get disability pay because no one could make up their mind who was responsible to pay it. We barely made it through and had to depend on family to pay for groceries and utilities.

Some times life throws curve balls. Some of us are very lucky to have jobs and health insurance. As much as some would like to think that it was all hard work that got them where they are now, most of the time it's pure luck and a splash of fate. I don't know how I feel about universal healthcare... but I do know that the current system is only working for those who can afford it and is slowly getting worse.

How much abuse do you see in the Medicaid system? You know, the "my kids has been sick for the last three days, so I waited until Friday night and brought him to ER" bunch. I see a lot of it. So Texas starts a health insurance program for low income kids-guess what happens! More kids in the ER that should have been in the Dr's office. My favorite is the "One kid is sick so I brought the other three in also" lady.

The fact is that when people do not pay for something they do not respect it and they tend to abuse the system.

Ask any Dr what Medicare reimbursement is for an office visit. Last I heard was $19. This has to pay for the doctor, the office, the office staff, supplies, etc. Then what happens, people complain that the doctor does not spend enough time with them.

So now we change to universal healthcare and let the government control all the money. After all, they have done such a good job of managing social security.

Plus we shift it to where no one has to pay anything for their healthcare. What is that going to do to our ERs and Dr's offices and clinics.

I do not claim to have an answer to the problem. but I think that I do know a couple of things: 1. We need to FORCE people to accept at least some of the responsibility of the cost of their healthcare. and 2. letting the government control just about anything (especially where it concerns money) is a recipe for disaster.

Specializes in Psych, CVICU, SICU, MICU, PICU.

I believe we are at an advantage to learn from other countries mistakes at attempts to fix our healthcare system to take care of our people. I do, however, think that the people starting the rumors about less pay for the physicians and nurses, are the people who are profiting from the medical system as it is now. Yes, there will be cuts.. the top administrators will lose out on the 'bonuses' from the hospital board that we, as medical staff have worked hard for and receive none.. and the people sucking the system dry by being 'figure-heads' will be eliminated from their positions.

Insurance companies and corporate hospitals are more concerned about making money for stock-holders than in patient care. These are business people that do not have much, if any, medical knowledge. The CEO's of these hospitals and insurance companies JOB is to satisfy the stock-holders, as it is our job, as medical professionals, to help the patient achieve the best possible outcome from surgery or illness and to try to keep costs down to the consumer. Both take away from each other, and so the battle ensues.

Many of the Insurance Companies and Hospital Corporations are frequently listed in the top of the Forbes 500 Companies. Many of the these have branched out under different corporate names, with many of the same share-holders.. they have 'diversified'. Now think.. what if all the monies we spend on health insurance would be given to the government instead, and the hospitals were once again ran by the government as non-profit. Much of that money could be utilized to eliminate the government debt, if handled properly. We are the only country in the world that has set up a gambling system called 'the stock market', that places 'bets' on neccessaties of life! People complain about prices increasing on the things we need.. that is not what 'really' happened... the US dollar depreciated from people gambling on the stock market!

From what I understand, people are going to be given some options under the last proposal I was aware of, from a variety of insurance coverage. There are a variety of countries that we can look upon to see what health care systems did and did not work. In Australlia, where my sister lives, there is a federally funded health care system. My sister also carries some insurance on top of this, and any health concern she has had, have been addressed within a few days by.. faster than what I am able to get into a physician's office in the US.

If Obama is elected, he has stated that he wants input from the people. As professionals in the health care system, this is where we get to offer our 2 cents. I am on the MoveOn.org mailing list.. and they sent out a questionaire for people who are involved in healthcare to answer, as they were presenting our thoughts to the Senate last week. Believe me, they did not get just 2 cents.. they got a dollars worth of my opinins.. hehe

We all need to 'Be the change you want to see in this world.'

Specializes in Future ICU nurse.
That's quite easy, in theory at least. Penalize the people that refuse to partake in preventative care. We do it for smokers and the obese now in some places.

May be a little big brotherish but if you had A B and C available but only chose to utilize C the when lack of A and B leads to X and Y you have to pay more...

It's sounds mean but we don't have a culture of preventative medicine. If we force that culture eventually it will become our culture and there will be no more need to force it.

Of course I am a strong believer in sometimes people just don't know what is good for them and a little nudge is good... Where the nudging ends is always a problem of course. There, of course could be opt out options and such. Yes, complicated I know but nothing worth doing is ever easy.

Once a freedom is given up it is gone forever. There is no getting it back. What right does someone else have to tell me that I can't go to McDonalds and eat what I want to and I can't drink a beer if I want to either. Pretty soon this country will be China and the government will have to pick our jobs for us too.

Specializes in Future ICU nurse.

And one more thing. If you think it will be the rich that take a pay cut you need to wake up and smell the coffee. Show me a poor congressman and I will sell you some ocean front property in Arizona. Any time money has to come out of a pocket, that pocket belongs to a poor man.

Well, first off let me say here in the North (Canada) we have universal healthcare which means we all have the same access to healthcare on a level playing field. WRONG!!! Unless you are an athlete who can afford to pay for a private MRI & go to the head of the line. Or you have supplementary insurance that will pay for 3rd line Chemo the government deems "untried". Shall I mention the shortage of Nurses? I find the pay not too bad but I'm in Homecare working for one of those awful "profit making" companies. I tried non-profit once & had to take on two part time jobs just to make ends meet. What does that tell you? On the other hand people don't die from a lack of insurance or loose their home because they got sick. So there are two sides. In the UK they have a mix of Public/Private. If you want to pay for it guess what gets you in quicker? That is what many up here are pushing for. You get what you (or your taxes) pay for. Yes we have a very high taxation rate up here but I also think our social safety net is much greater.

According to Obama if she is raped she can have an abortion, even after giving birth. Of coure the left always loves to live in "What if" land.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/974304/barack_obama_supports_infanticide.html

*ROLL EYES*

So what if she is raped... Indentured servitude is quite alive and well.

It's called poverty.

:down::down::down:

People go without, or with minimum, and then when they get really sick, and are on their death bed, we treat them and invest tons of money just to care for them until they die. Who pays the bill?

This is what drives me insane about health care in this country. Once people develop chronic health problems from years of a lack of preventative care we spend tons trying to patch them back up!

In a universal health system, the care for those who do not take care of themselves is paid for by those who do.

The wages of healthcare workers WILL go down....steadily, as the system grows more and more bloated each and every year. Add to that the money that will be taken out or your check to pay for the system AND the increase in prices you will have to deal with when the Messiah raises taxes on businesses.

With all that said, I agree with an earlier poster that regardless of who is president, universal healthcare in this country will never be seen.

+ Join the Discussion