Published
I been hearing this debate off and on for a long time about how if Obama gets universal healthcare to go ( if he gets elected of course)though in the US that nursing pay will be cut dramatically. I would think this has to do with the fact that we would all be working for the government and that there will no longer be competition. There are many people in my nursing class that said they will leave nursing if thats the case. I also talked to several doctors that said the same thing about medicine in general. Im just curious if anyone has some good info about this. Thanks
Health care would be different because liberals will try and get about 1/3 of the country to pay the healthcare for the other 2/3. Yuor house analogy is flawed because it assumes everyone pays for their house. Make gas $10/gallon to pay for UHC and let's see if that flys.
The "many" are already providing free health care to the few. Socialism is different than UHC. Right now, almost everyone pays for their own house, so why would paying for health care be any different?
This is my point. these are the same people forcing their idea of care down everyone elses throat but when it comes to their care they choose to go elsewhere. This is liberalism 101- exempt yourselves from the rules you put on others.
Keep in mind that Canada's Liberal Party is only liberal in name-- they're closer to centre-right.
What it really comes down to is greed! Republicans are greedy and have this isolationist attitude which is all about me me me..."as long as i'm good i don't care about the collective group!" Let's just call it what it is. Just because you can afford Healthcare...you don't care if anyone else has it. why do you think that way??? It's unAmerican in the worst way!! I have healthcare...but i realize that we are in this together! Don't you realize that if the collective nation isn't healthy then your individual lifestyle that you fight so hard to preserve cannot survive in a vacuum. Alot of americans are one pink slip from being "those who don't carry their weight" in your eyes. You don't understand the big picture...only the one that shows you and your family in it. Your cosh cosh lifestyle only can exists if the nation is healthy financially and physically. You have a problem with our taxes paying for UHC but you have no problem with our taxes (exponentially more) going to pay a war of greed in Iraq?!?! Do you know how much of our taxes are going to pay for that God forsaken War???? Well actually we are deep in red over this war...future generations taxes are paying for it. this war actually plays into the same attitude that republicans have over UHC..."it's all about me me me...i don't care about the soldiers, american citizens we put in harms way, physically, financially just as long as i get rich off this oil." Iraq has a surplus...we are struggling...americans are losing their homes...our economy is in the dumps and still you want more of the same??? You may have contempt for the international community just as most republicans do but know that as evident by your policies the past eight years it also means you have contempt for your fellow americans who are not as fortunate as you, but don't be fooled or mistaken...without them...your lifestyle will cease to exist! If you don't realize that those who have should and must sometimes carry, for certain services, those who don't because THAT is american...the spirit of comraderie...the spirit of when the it gets tough we band together and help each other out. Your way of thinking, the republican way of thinking evident by it's decisions the last eight years, will only lead this nation into ruin. Our nation is in the dumps right now we need to pull together and HELP each other out, NOT everyone looking out for themselves, because with out each other neither can continue to exist, apparently something totally foreign to Republicans. So you can continue to guard your wealth/individual well being while the "the band plays on"...but it won't do you any good cause if one of us goes down...it's only a matter of time before we ALL go down. Isolationism only breeds greed and greed only breeds ruin...take that to the bank...if the bank is still lending!
Mex
"Don't Tase Me Bro"
I'd like to debunk some myths about universal health care if I may.It's not free and we all know it's not free. But it does cover everyone, no matter who they are, where they're from or how much money they have. Money budgeted for health care is spent on health care, not on coding clerks, billing clerks, accounts receivable clerks, postage and the salaries of insurance company executives. The extra taxes I pay to universal health care are probably less than the average person with insurance in the US pays for their monthly premiums.
Our government pays for health care. It does NOT provide it or employ the people who do. The Canadian government has legislated the Canada Health Act, which lays out the rules for how health care is funded but decisions on care are made by the physician according to the patient's needs, NOT by the government (or some bloated insurance company that denies payment for even simple things because some T wasn't crossed on one of the twenty forms needed to seek authorization). I am employed by my health region, which receives its funding from the province; the premier is not my boss.
There is no shortage of people interested in health care careers. There are always more applicants for medical school and nursing school than there are seats. Nurses are paid very well in Canada; I made more than $100K last year and I don't do overtime. Universal health care does not equal inferior wages and benefits. The physicians I work with are definitely not struggling to pay off student loans while they lounge on the decks of their vacation homes in Kelowna or as they're checking out the museums in Rome. And to suggest that the quality of care here is somehow inferior is just wrong: our life expectancy, infant mortality, infectious disease rates, and many other indicators are all better than those south of the border.
No one in Canada has lost their home because they couldn't pay their hospital bills. Any bankruptcies associated with health care have come due to job loss secondary to being unfit to work and having insufficient savings to pay the day-to-day bills during a long illness, and not from huge hospital bills. Universal health care in Canada does not pay for outpatient drugs, except those on the life-saving-drug list (transplant meds and chemotherapy are a couple) but all inpatient drugs are covered. Many elective procedures are not covered, such as my mother-in-law's face lift, or my neighbour's boob job. But my elective hysterectomy was because I was losing two units of blood every cycle. Ambulance rides are not covered by most provinces; here the bill is $385 a trip. If an ambulance is called and not used, the person is still billed; EMS services are a municipal responsibility.
Of course our system is not perfect, there are things that need adjusting. But the majority of Canadians who have been consumers of health care here are satisfied with the care they received. Health care is not a profit driven venture here. Hospitals are not making money for shareholders, because we're all shareholders; they are paid for the care and services they provide and for upgrading equipment and hiring new staff as needed. So before you deride our system as being so lousy, at least know what you're talking about.
(CRNA2007, I find your arguments to be self-contradictory. You don't want your taxes to pay for health care for you neighbour but you're okay with them paying for his education. Where do you think the money for grants comes from?)
I work for a well know insurace company. The public has no idea of the infrastructure that goes into the health insurance industry. That, by the way, is where 30% of our health care dollars are going.
Clerks (and nurses), to review records and approve or deny claims. Having to meet the element of a disease or procedure in order for it to be approved (did the patient try conservative treatment before requesting treatment with an expensive medication, or surgical procedure- if not, send it back to the provider for more information), doctors who work for the insurance company jetting all over the country to other insurance offices for meetings, large, brand new buildings, etc. You get the picture.
This is money that could be used to provide care for everyone. Older Americans can stay on Medicare, and the rest of us can go on Tricare, the system the military uses for its member. We are a retired military family and use Tricare Standard, and Tricare Dental. They cover very well. They also have an out of pocket cost yearly maximum. When, and if, your health care cost go over that amount in a year, all care is covered. No need to worry your health care costs and deductables will bankrupt you and you family. We get our prescriptions for free at the base, and if I go to RiteAid to have them filled, a name brand drug will only cost $9 for a co pay, and $3 for a generic. There is none of this, "if the drug cost X amount on $, then you pay a higher co pay, etc. It is all the same, regardless of what the medication costs.
There is a better way to provide health care for all Americans. It can be done. As was pointed out above, we pay for "unversal public education for our children", unversal police and fire department coverage, public transportation"etc, the list goes on.
There is no logical reason to not institute inversal coverage for all Americans. I can say without a doubt in my mind, the insurance industry is not going to go down without a fight. They are going to throw any and all roadblocks in the way to preserve the cash cow that they have created.
Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
Spokane, Washington
puuuuuhlease, Who is more greedy? Those who want to keep more of their hard earned money for themselves and their family or those that want to take someone elses money for themselves?
Yeah, let's call it what it is CAPITALISM which is what this country was founded on. You want collectivism take a 90 minute swim south of Miami and you can have all the free health care and poverty you could ever want.
What it really comes down to is greed! Republicans are greedy and have this isolationist attitude which is all about me me me..."as long as i'm good i don't care about the collective group!" Let's just call it what it is. Just because you can afford Healthcare...you don't care if anyone else has it. why do you think that way??? It's unAmerican in the worst way!! I have healthcare...but i realize that we are in this together! Don't you realize that if the collective nation isn't healthy then your individual lifestyle that you fight so hard to preserve cannot survive in a vacuum. Alot of americans are one pink slip from being "those who don't carry their weight" in your eyes. You don't understand the big picture...only the one that shows you and your family in it. Your cosh cosh lifestyle only can exists if the nation is healthy financially and physically. You have a problem with our taxes paying for UHC but you have no problem with our taxes (exponentially more) going to pay a war of greed in Iraq?!?! Do you know how much of our taxes are going to pay for that God forsaken War???? Well actually we are deep in red over this war...future generations taxes are paying for it. this war actually plays into the same attitude that republicans have over UHC..."it's all about me me me...i don't care about the soldiers, american citizens we put in harms way, physically, financially just as long as i get rich off this oil." Iraq has a surplus...we are struggling...americans are losing their homes...our economy is in the dumps and still you want more of the same??? You may have contempt for the international community just as most republicans do but know that as evident by your policies the past eight years it also means you have contempt for your fellow americans who are not as fortunate as you, but don't be fooled or mistaken...without them...your lifestyle will cease to exist! If you don't realize that those who have should and must sometimes carry, for certain services, those who don't because THAT is american...the spirit of comraderie...the spirit of when the it gets tough we band together and help each other out. Your way of thinking, the republican way of thinking evident by it's decisions the last eight years, will only lead this nation into ruin. Our nation is in the dumps right now we need to pull together and HELP each other out, NOT everyone looking out for themselves, because with out each other neither can continue to exist, apparently something totally foreign to Republicans. So you can continue to guard your wealth/individual well being while the "the band plays on"...but it won't do you any good cause if one of us goes down...it's only a matter of time before we ALL go down. Isolationism only breeds greed and greed only breeds ruin...take that to the bank...if the bank is still lending!Mex
"Don't Tase Me Bro"
puuuuuhlease, Who is more greedy? Those who want to keep more of their hard earned money for themselves and their family or those that want to take someone elses money for themselves?Yeah, let's call it what it is CAPITALISM which is what this country was founded on. You want collectivism take a 90 minute swim south of Miami and you can have all the free health care and poverty you could ever want.
Your greed knows no limits! Capitalism can continue to exist...but it must have a foundation of basic needs and necessities filled, public ed, universal healthcare for ALL!! Without these Capitalism will not last. It is clearly evident that you are the greedy one...unfortunately you will only learn when you or your family find themselves in the shoes of someone with a catatrophic illness...if that's the only way your greed will allow you to learn such a lesson...then so be it...so be it...
In the end...you are irrelevant...the country is heading in that direction...you can either get on or stay behind...sorry bro.
Mex
"Don't Tase Me Bro"
Let me have your checkbook for a day and you will see unbridled compassion that would make Jesus look like Scrooge. Of course for liberals compassion is words not deeds.
Your greed knows no limits! Capitalism can continue to exist...but it must have a foundation of basic needs and necessities filled, public ed, universal healthcare for ALL!! Without these Capitalism will not last. It is clearly evident that you are the greedy one...unfortunately you will only learn when you or your family find themselves in the shoes of someone with a catatrophic illness...if that's the only way your greed will allow you to learn such a lesson...then so be it...so be it...In the end...you are irrelevant...the country is heading in that direction...you can either get on or stay behind...sorry bro.
Mex
"Don't Tase Me Bro"
Let me have your checkbook for a day and you will see unbridled compassion that would make Jesus look like Scrooge. Of course for liberals compassion is words not deeds.
Apparently for you as well...just like a republican...compassion only when it doesn't cost them anything...
Mex
"Don't Tase Me Bro"
Glad to see you admit that words are the only comppasion liberals can produce. Just look at Obama's charitable giving several years agon about 1% of his income. I remeber when AL gore gave about $350 in charitable giving as Vice President. Compassionate lip service all day long.
Apparently for you as well...just like a republican...compassion only when it doesn't cost them anything...Mex
"Don't Tase Me Bro"
CRNA2007
657 Posts
This is my point. these are the same people forcing their idea of care down everyone elses throat but when it comes to their care they choose to go elsewhere. This is liberalism 101- exempt yourselves from the rules you put on others.