Why so reluctant to give pain meds?

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Hello!

I just got off a busy night shift and I am feeling frustrated by one of the nurses I work with in regard to controlling a patient's pain.

Quick background on me - I am an LPN working as a CNA on a Rehab and Skilled unit at a hospital where they do not hire LPN's. I work homecare as an LPN. I will graduate from an ADN program in 3 weeks.

So...the issue I am wondering about is the reluctance to use the pain medications that the doctor has prescribed for a patient. We currently have a patient on our unit recovering from bilateral total knee replacement. She is female, 50's, a little heavy but not morbidly so, and she has a lot of pain. She is on our unit because she needs more time to recover and some PT to get these new knees working well enough to be safe at home. We put on her bil CPM machines at about 5am each morning. As a CNA, I make sure she is toileted before we do this, as we want her on the machines for 2 hours. I also think she should have pain meds about 30 minutes before CPM application, or right before if we are giving them IV.

For 2 nights in a row now, I have had the nurse assigned to this patient balk at the idea of giving her pain meds before putting on the CPM's. One of them gave her an oral pill at 4:30am, but when we got her up to the bathroom at 5:15am she was moaning in pain and talking about how much it hurt her to move. When she was back in bed at 0530, the nurse asked her about her pain, and said something like, "Do you want something for pain? I know you have been trying to get away from the IV meds," and then just went on with the interaction without giving the patient a chance to answer. As we were finishing up, the patient was still moaning and saying she hurt, and the nurse just said, "Call us if you need anything" and left the room. I followed her and told her that I thought the patient needed something because she was still moaning in pain. The nurse told me again how the patient had refused some pain meds earlier in the night when she was not in pain, and had been "playing on her computer" at another time, like this justified not giving pain meds. I guess I bugged the nurse enough because she did take her down some IV dilaudid.

Note: this patient has no documented history of addiction or any problems r/t opioid meds.

On the second night, before I ever saw the patient, I hear her nurse (a different nurse) complaining to the charge nurse about how the patient says she is having so much pain but that she (the nurse) does not want to give any IV pain meds. I know that patients have to adapt to using PO meds before they go home, but this lady is only up to 65 degrees on her CPMs - she is not going home that soon. I don't know how the pain med administration went for most of the night, but this time it was 5am when I went to toilet her before CPMs. Before I went, I asked the nurse if the pt had been given pain meds. She said she had her oral pill at 0330 (sorry, not sure what it was, but something like Norco), and then "something else" so she should be fine. But again, when we got her up to the bathroom she was moaning and continually saying how much her knees hurt. She had ice packs on when we walked in, and we put fresh ice packs on with the CPMs. It was 0520 when I approached her nurse and told her the patient was in pain and asking for pain medication. The nurse seemed very annoyed. But I think she did go down and give her something. I looked at her MAR and saw that the last thing she had been given was flexoril.

OK - so I know there are probably variables that I don't know about. Since I was working as an aide I did not read this patient's whole history. But I DID ask the nurse tonight WHY we shouldn't give her any pain meds and she said there are people who go home 2 days after knee surgery and they only use PO meds, and that by allowing her to use the IV meds we are letting her "go backwards" in her progress toward home. To me this is not a valid reason, as the patients who are healthy and strong enough to go home 2 days after surgery do not come to our unit. They come to our unit for pain control, recovery time and therapy to help them get stronger.

I guess I am looking for some insight, because I will be a new practicing RN soon and I feel that good pain management is important for these ortho patients if we want them to use their CPMs and do their therapies. I know we don't want respiratory depression, kidney problems, or people who are too dopey to get up in the morning. If the pain meds cause delirium I know we try to decrease doses or change meds. This lady has no therapy scheduled for today and breakfast doesn't come until 0745. She has had no confusion. Why are these nurses so hesitant to get her pain under control?

I very nearly lost it. I always try to treat the attending nurses with the upmost respect but this just demonstrated such bad decision making (as well as practicing outside of scope) that I got a little snippy. This is just not acceptable.

Sent from my iPhone.

Wow! I'd have very nearly lost it as well.

Really good comments here about pain control. I worked bedside in a small rural hospital and we got all kinds of patients admitted acutely. Lots of ortho patients in the mix (knee/hip).

I work hospice now. We give lots of pain meds and even in hospice, we get the worries about "addiction".

Pain control is very important to recovery. OP - listen to Esme and the other folks here who tell you to medicate for pain.

It probably would be helpful to take some extra classes in pain control from a pain specialist. I know I did when I was a new nurse and encountered all the not-very-compassionate myths.

Specializes in ICU.

Personally, I am sick to death of the pain med debate. I read in the news that we are now getting a "new hydrocodone" with a hard, almost impenetrable shell, to reduce abuse. We will soon have to count tramadol, of all things. Both my daughter and I have severe arthritis. When mine flares, I can hardly walk. Some days I need Norco, some days I don't. I have never taken more than 10 mg in a 24 hr day before. I only work part-time because of the arthritis. I get tired of having to practically beg for pain relief. I have had 2 major GI bleeds and I am not supposed to take NSAIDS. Plain acetaminophen does nothing for the type of arthritic pain I have. Flexeril does nothing but put me to sleep. If I am in the hospital, and a nurse chooses to withhold my pain med, you can bet I will be on the phone with the doctor, the DON, etc. unless of course it is warranted.

on one admission I was give 20 MG of morphine over 4 hours for uncontrolled pain. I WAS STILL IN PAIN!!! I can tell you I was flying high... I felt as if I was 20 feet off the bed but I hurt bad. The night shift nurse refused to give me any more pain meds. Thank god the next shift took over an hour later and the at shift nurse walked in and took one look at me and said you are still in pain. I said yes. she went and got a new order for dilapidated and gave it right away. It held me for 12 hours. Pain is real and under medicating is malpractice.

Specializes in Med-Surg, NICU.

My school taught me that pain is what the patient says it is and to give meds unless they have symptoms of respiratory depression, etc.

Personally, I am sick to death of the pain med debate. I read in the news that we are now getting a "new hydrocodone" with a hard, almost impenetrable shell, to reduce abuse. We will soon have to count tramadol, of all things. Both my daughter and I have severe arthritis. When mine flares, I can hardly walk. Some days I need Norco, some days I don't. I have never taken more than 10 mg in a 24 hr day before. I only work part-time because of the arthritis. I get tired of having to practically beg for pain relief. I have had 2 major GI bleeds and I am not supposed to take NSAIDS. Plain acetaminophen does nothing for the type of arthritic pain I have. Flexeril does nothing but put me to sleep. If I am in the hospital, and a nurse chooses to withhold my pain med, you can bet I will be on the phone with the doctor, the DON, etc. unless of course it is warranted.

It's interesting that Tramadol made the count list. Lately I've been doing some corrections work and have been taken by surprise at having to count/document it along with the other scheduled meds. Fact is, it's dispensed like candy there, so that's a big spike in required documentation in my neck of the woods.

I also chuckle a bit because the entire point of giving Tramadol for most practitioners I am friendly with was as an alternative to the scheduled medication option. I can't help it, it's funny in a sad way.

To the OP: My experiences have shown me so far that if you give the medications to keep the pain level of the patient low - you actually reduce the inpatient time. I cannot back this up with studies, as it's my own personal observation. I'm sure they are out there though. Understanding what to give for what specific pain type becomes a judgement call for the nurse amongst authorized medications. Kyrshamarks makes a good point there regard MSO4. The hard part to grasp for a lot of my co workers I've found is that once you allow the pain factor to act as a barrier (cpm use/transfers/etc), you practically have to start over again.

Suffice to say, I'd have gone back to the IVP if that's what was working. Then restarted the step down process. Yes, you want that patient to be on PO meds for discharge. Yet it takes a longer, and more bumpy ride to that if the patient is left in pain. Worse come to worse, think of it as an ADPIE thing. Cover your buttocks with your documentation of your assessments/interventions/reassesments as some of your colleagues will believe giving more than one IVP is going to produce an addict. And this is not the case by and large.

Specializes in Psych, Corrections, Med-Surg, Ambulatory.

Double knee replacement? Of course it hurts. How on earth is she supposed to do the stuff she needs to do to recover if all she can do is writhe in pain?

Sounds like your facility needs a pain control inservice. Unrelieved postop pain actually delays healing for many reasons. Maybe you can put a bug in someone's ear about the need to change the culture on your unit and correct the knowledge deficit. Good luck.

Specializes in hospice.

I'm a CNA and will start LPN school in January, so take my comment for what it's worth, but the OP's nurses sound like judgemental, punitive witches. Because the patient is at times able to distract herself and has some entertainment for long, boring inpatient days, that must mean she's not really in pain?

My own future frightens me as I pass 40.

I'm a CNA and will start LPN school in January, so take my comment for what it's worth, but the OP's nurses sound like judgemental, punitive witches. Because the patient is at times able to distract herself and has some entertainment for long, boring inpatient days, that must mean she's not really in pain?

My own future frightens me as I pass 40.

I'm not saying they were right (although, again, I do not believe IV pain meds are in general appropriate in the rehab setting), but I would watch it with the judgment if I were you. You don't have a license to pass meds, and perhaps your attitude will change once you're responsible for the outcomes.

Having recently worked in sub acute rehab I can say that usually our patients are off IV pain med by the time we get them. However, they are on long acting and short acting pain medications. Usually Oxycodone CR BID and Oxycodone IR every 4-6 hours PRN. A pt with bilateral knee replacements is going to have a lot more pain than one who has a single knee replacement. She has to learn how to walk again. The IV pain med is only going to last about an hour, perhaps she should be given the long-acting oral pain med along with the IV medication. That way her pain is under better control with the shorter acting pain med working initially and the long acting working when it wears off. She also should be on a regular stool softner/laxative to prevent constipation as all this pain medication is going to slow down her bowels. She should be getting up to 90 degrees with the CPM so pain control is a huge issue for her. If the nurse continues to avoid giving this patient her pain medication, I would report it to the unit manager as a concern, ask the pt if she thinks her pain is under control, has PT noted that she needs more medication?? It will be great to have a nurse like you who advocates for her patients working among us!!

Specializes in Med nurse in med-surg., float, HH, and PDN.

I had a doc explain to me in my younger years that it is always better to stay on top of the pain, that waiting to give it long after it is time, and requested, puts the patient at a disadvantage because then it takes longer for the med to provide relief. He told all the nurses that if it is ordered and if it is time, GIVE THE MED! He always specified in his orders to give the pain med prior to PT and/or treatments. He also worked with the patients to step down the pain meds gradually. As a result his patients were much easier to deal with.

After having seen, as a student, a cancer patient with a total hip removal screaming with pain: "JUST KILL ME!", and a nurse closing the door to her room so she wouldn't "disturb" the other patients, saying she didn't want the patient to become addicted......the above mentioned doc was definitely my hero!

Specializes in Acute Care - Adult, Med Surg, Neuro.

After having seen, as a student, a cancer patient with a total hip removal screaming with pain: "JUST KILL ME!", and a nurse closing the door to her room so she wouldn't "disturb" the other patients, saying she didn't want the patient to become addicted......the above mentioned doc was definitely my hero!

Oh my god, I would report this RN. I had a very similar situation. I had a patient actively dying who woke up gasping for breath, face contorted in a silent scream. (I had been caring for this patient for several days and had been giving regular pain medication despite patient being non-responsive). I emptied out the Pyxis of Dilaudid and gave it q10min (as ordered) until the patient was back to resting comfortably.

Specializes in orthopedic/trauma, Informatics, diabetes.

I was a rehab nurse for a year and have been an orthopedic nurse for the last 2 years. This is insane! (Not going into the CPM-is-not-EBP anymore) Pts cannot heal if they are hurting, pts cannot participate in PT properly if they are hurting. I agree that we do not send pts out to rehab on IV pain meds, but they are, at a minimum, oxycontin Q12H and have a short acting, like oxycodone IR as well as scheduled tylenol, and more than likely Lyrica or neurontin.

I have also been an ortho pt. 5 times. That is torture withholding pain medication.

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