Why there is a debate re: ADN/BSN

Nurses General Nursing

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The government (military and VA) differentiate between nurses with an ADN and those with a BSN. The ANA differentiates between them, but the civilian industry does not. If the civilian hospitals ever decided that there isn't a nursing shortage and only show interest in hiring those with BSNs, all the junior colleges will dry up overnight.

I personally knew a captain in the Air Force a while back (I think it was a previous life :) ) who only had an ADN. But at that time the military really needed nurses, so they commissoned ADNs not on their eductaion but on their professional liscense of RN.

It all depends on how bad they need nurses. End the nursing shortage with a bad economy and you'll end the ADN as an entry-level degree to professional nursing.

Do you think this is true?

Specializes in Oncology/Haemetology/HIV.
Originally posted by Berkeley

Finally, someone actually reads the post and responds to it intelligently.

Actually quite a few people read the post and did give intelligent answers.

They were just not what you wanted to read.

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I am so sick of this crap that a BSN makes you a better nurse....knock it off already. Oh, there's a shortage, so ADN's can be hired because any warm body with a license will do?? BULLS**T. I took the same boards, and do the same work as a BSN nurse, what is the difference???????? There isn't any.

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

yes the question IS moot. I DO prefer to deal with REAL world problems,not Ivory Tower platitudes. I don't work for the US gov't and as far as I know, never will again......

and this IS not an UNintelligent response.......

it is realistic. you can't dry up 60% of an already short force and just go on with business as usual.

just cause people do not agree with you, does not mean they are not intelligent...it tells ME you have a closed mind.

lordy. another live one. been busy here this week.

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Specializes in Emergency room, med/surg, UR/CSR.

I am so sick of this crap that a BSN makes you a better nurse....knock it off already. Oh, there's a shortage, so ADN's can be hired because any warm body with a license will do?? BULLS**T. I took the same boards, and do the same work as a BSN nurse, what is the difference???????? There isn't any.

ITA!!!!!!

Pam

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Berkely,

The gov't had nothing to do with BSN as entry to practice in Canada. We don't have socialized medicine in a true sense. The change was made by nursing boards and nursing educators. Frankly I prefer it that way. I don't like the idea of the gov't imposing a registration requirement on nurses, we should be self-regulating.

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Specializes in LDRP; Education.
Originally posted by Berkeley

I'm sorry, and I don't mean to be rude, but your reply sounds very much like what I came to know of nursing school instructors. The ones I had were very poor teachers, and they really lacked skill on the floor, as well. They hated their jobs and they hated the students and they were terrible examples for others to follow. Of course there was one who was very good, and the chairperson was very good. But that's like 2 out of 20. So, frankly, I'd actually support cutting their pay, not raising it.

You should try to find what you love about nursing, or did love about it and try to return to that. You don't sound happy, and if nursing is as great a misery to you as it was to the instructors I had, then you really aren't helping anyone or yourself.

That's just my opinion, though, and you know what opinions are like.

I do find it interesting that as soon as any nurse, in any role, states that she/he is underpaid or undervalued, that immediately it is somewhat suggested that the nurse should leave the profession. Frankly, I find that type of mentality to be exactly the reason we are in the shortage we are today. Too many nurses who are vocal and obtuse about working conditions have been regarded as troublemakers or mistakenly believed to be "unhappy" and have been heckled out of the profession. Has that solved anything? No, it's made it worse.

Don't get me wrong: I love being a nurse and I love teaching (and by the way, I'm not a nursing school instructor - FYI) What I don't like is the constant disparity in pay, the constant arguing among ourselves about our educational levels. I dislike how healthcare is today. Costs are out of control, hospitals are short-staffed, nurses as a whole do not have a voice or control over much. Sure, there are pockets here and there about hospitals who value their nurses and they have a voice/influence, but generally speaking, that's not the rule: it's the exception. These types of things in my opinion have made working in healthcare less than ideal. There's a shortage of bedside nurses and there's a shortage of educators. There is absolutely no incentive to get additional education, other than personal, which, let's be realistic - that only goes so far in life. Obviously, I made the decision to return to school knowing full well I'd make less than the nurses I'm teaching, but over time, educators realize that they can't keep doing this forever. And so they leave. As do the floor nurses.

Not to be rude myself, but your statement

Finally, someone actually reads the post and responds to it intelligently.

demonstrates to me that you are unable to decipher the many intelligent posts that were made to you regarding this issue. Nursing & healthcare isn't black and white, like you seem to think it is. There are many facets of it which was represented in these posts. Unfortunately, you have an inability to see that.

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Specializes in LDRP; Education.
Originally posted by MishlB

Oh, there's a shortage, so ADN's can be hired because any warm body with a license will do?? BULLS**T.

I'm curious, did someone say that ADNs are nothing but "warm bodies?" I don't recall reading that here. I believe what was mentioned was the creation of many unlicensed assistive roles in response to the shortage. I certainly wouldn't classify an ADN as an unlicensed assistive person; you shouldn't either.

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

Excellent post, Suzy. While you and I disagree about some fundamental issues at times, I appreciate your cool-headed manner in which you debate an issue. You have my respect.:)

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Specializes in LDRP; Education.

Tanks, Deb. :)

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Yes, a comment was made that due to the shortage any warm body will do. This comment made me respond the way I did because A: I am an ADRN, and B: it is insulting to assume because I have a different degree I am not as valued. That is why I responded the way I did, and as I see the comments made previously have been edited. I could care less for your respect.

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Specializes in LDRP; Education.
Originally posted by MishlB

Yes, a comment was made that due to the shortage any warm body will do. This comment made me respond the way I did because A: I am an ADRN, and B: it is insulting to assume because I have a different degree I am not as valued. That is why I responded the way I did, and as I see the comments made previously have been edited. I could care less for your respect.

Hmm. I went back and read the posts and the only one that mentioned a "warm body will do" was (surprise, surprise) mine, which read:

I could see your claim. Obviously, with a shortage, one could argue that basically any warm body will do; facilities care less about quality and focus on quantity - to staff the floors. I think this is evident by the creation of several unlicensed assistive roles in the past 5-10 years.

I'd like to point out that the post was never edited. I hate flame wars, but if there's going to be one, at least start it on something that's accurate and NOT misleading.

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If there is such a vast difference between the 2 degrees, why do we take the SAME EXACT licensing exam????

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