The government (military and VA) differentiate between nurses with an ADN and those with a BSN. The ANA differentiates between them, but the civilian industry does not. If the civilian hospitals ever decided that there isn't a nursing shortage and only show interest in hiring those with BSNs, all the junior colleges will dry up overnight.
I personally knew a captain in the Air Force a while back (I think it was a previous life :) ) who only had an ADN. But at that time the military really needed nurses, so they commissoned ADNs not on their eductaion but on their professional liscense of RN.
It all depends on how bad they need nurses. End the nursing shortage with a bad economy and you'll end the ADN as an entry-level degree to professional nursing.
I started to write out a very long reply, but decided. WHY? This is an old issue and as I have said before let it die a peaceful death. No one is going to convince anyone that one is better or more desirable than the other. Everyone went into nursing for their own reason and if the path you chose is one or the other, no one is going to tell you are wrong. Every level of nursing has it's difficulty no matter what kind of degree you have, and no one works harder because of the degree they hold. I have been in nursing 27 years and find it easier now than ever. I don't let anything stress me out and do my job, I think, very well. I work in the OR and really like my work. I have no desire to go to school for my BSN because I have no need for it. By the time the higher ups decide the BSN is the minimum for nursing I will be long gone. But the discussions do show how everybody thinks and I can LOL some of the resonses. Mike
ADN nurses are just as capable to do a job as one with a BSN. It all depends on the individual nurse. There are aweful BSN nurses and better ADN nurses and vice versa. I found that those graduating with a BSN are not as clinically skilled as those graduating with an ADN.
wendellchef--I agree with you--BSN nurses are not as clinically skilled as ADN nurses, however, I don't feel that anyone should be thinking they are better because of the letters behind their name. I have an ADN and have been doing Neonatal Intensive care and Pediatric Intensive care ever since I graduated with my measly little 2 year degree, and I am a damn good nurse!! It's experience that counts, not book learning. I looked into going for my BSN, and the reasons I didn't are:
1. The increase in pay would not be enough to justify me spending thousands of dollars to obtain those letters.
2. There was not one single class that I would take that would teach me anything I need to work in the areas that I work in.
3. Everything I have learned that helps me be a good nurse is from my co workers--most of whom are ADN's and hands on experience.
I get offended at the implication that we are not as good as those with BSN's.
I work in a great hospital that supports and values all of their staff from administration and management all the way down to the unit level. Our nametags all say only RN. No one gets to have their degree letters behind their name because we are all valued as equals.
Here in Aussie we do have single level entry into nursing. However, we also have goverment subsidized universities so although you end up with a debt it is not as crippling as the US. Our BSN degree is only three years as well. Orignally there was some friction when we did the change over between the "new" BSN nurses and the old hospital trained nurses but that faded as time went on. The other thing that helped ameliorate the difference is that "higher" positions cannot be excluded to "better" educated nurses only. Experience is deemed to equal further education - end of argument.
1. The increase in pay would not be enough to justify me spending thousands of dollars to obtain those letters.
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You get an increase in pay as a BSN???? Most places dont even offer that much.
Thats one thing I dont understand about nursing as a profession, there is not really any compensation for furthering your education. It doesnt mean squat to the admin that you obtain ACLS, PALS, CCRN and the like...any other profession would surely reward and encourage their staff to better themselves by furthering their education. I am not saying that BSN is better than ADN and I am in an ADN program but will eventually go into a BSN program and then Masters, but thats me, I like to open up as many doors as possible and keep my options open.
Why isnt there a fight for an increase in pay with the more certifications that you earn??? Just a thought.
The thing is, you are planning on going on for your Masters. In that instance, a BSN is needed. But for those ADN nurses who do not plan on forwarding their education, there is no need to get a BSN.
I know that a BSN is available online here in Jacksonville, FL. That's kinda crazy for a nurse - an online continuation of their degree.
I feel that the only reason a nurse should continue on for their BSN is if they decide to further their eduction and get a master's degree.
wendellchef--I agree with you--BSN nurses are not as clinically skilled as ADN nurses, however, I don't feel that anyone should be thinking they are better because of the letters behind their name.
I get offended at the implication that we are not as good as those with BSN's.
Yes. And so do BSNs get offended at implications that they are not as good as those with ADNs. I find it almost hypocritical that you pass a sweeping judgement against a BSN's clinical prowess, then state how offended you are at sweeping judgements against ADNs.
This whole debate is old and I haven't even entered the field yet. I'm personally going for the BSN because I don't have kids and I think eventually I would like to teach part-time since we are in need of nursing professors as well. I don't feel that I will be more or less of a nurse because of the path I have chosen, only time and experience will tell me the kind of nurse I will be. I just wish that there was no need to "walk on eggshells" around this topic. I understand that people new to nursing are debating which path to take and want to make the right choice, but there is no right or better choice...it's whatever is right for you.
I certainly hope that this profession is not this divided in the workplace. If that is the case, I just won't tell anyone what degree I have just to avoid conflict. Kind of feels like I'm in high school again.
Good luck to everyone with their careers...RNs, LPNs, CNAs, NPs, ADNs, BSNs, MSNs...blah, blah, blah...whatever you are...we all kick a$$ and save lives.
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
"divide and conquer"------------------------
this is why bean-counters get away with screwing the heck out of nursing, all over this great nation of ours.......
we can't even agree on respecting each other regardless of point of entry into nursing....
I too, am tired of :
"ADN's are better at clinical skills....BSN's think more critically" .....
Suzy is right; sweeping generalizations have NO place in real debate at all.......it's pure unadultrated....s....i mean.....
trash. so let's just keep digging at each other and go on and on round and round while the administrators/bean-counters sit back and laugh.....
I think it's high time we tackle REAL issues like:
*workplace violence
*on the job injury and lack of compensation
*fair pay for job done
*on the job safety/injury prevention
*our image in the public as nurses (yes it affects us and with the shortage of people coming in, we need to worry about it)
*developing and enforcing policies that disallow abuse of nurses/staff on the job by doctors, patients, families, adminstrators.
*finding ways to prevent/mitigate errors made on the job, such as med error and ending the "finger-pointing" that goes on when a mistake IS made. Let's FIX IT already!!!!!
I could go on and on...(as you all know).....
THESE are REAL issues in nursing that bother me much more than the level of entry for practice. THESE are the issues that hit me at home, anyhow!
SHEESH someone pour water on the poor dehydrated, dead horsie so we can beat him a little bit more......:roll :roll :roll
I understand the military always been pro education but the downside to that is they are paid by rank which to me means no money! Personally I don't care I have ADn in nursing and my license says RN so what is the hoopla all about. There is nothing wrong with nurses who chose to stay adn or move on to bsn, msn. It is a matter of choice. The way I see it bsn is just extra icing on the cake, unless you are going to put it to use bsn nurses are no better than adn because when it boils down to it your license is RN.
shodobe
1,260 Posts
I started to write out a very long reply, but decided. WHY? This is an old issue and as I have said before let it die a peaceful death. No one is going to convince anyone that one is better or more desirable than the other. Everyone went into nursing for their own reason and if the path you chose is one or the other, no one is going to tell you are wrong. Every level of nursing has it's difficulty no matter what kind of degree you have, and no one works harder because of the degree they hold. I have been in nursing 27 years and find it easier now than ever. I don't let anything stress me out and do my job, I think, very well. I work in the OR and really like my work. I have no desire to go to school for my BSN because I have no need for it. By the time the higher ups decide the BSN is the minimum for nursing I will be long gone. But the discussions do show how everybody thinks and I can LOL some of the resonses. Mike