Why there is a debate re: ADN/BSN

SmilingBluEyes · Nov 4, 2003

Originally posted by Berkeley
The government (military and VA) differentiate between nurses with an ADN and those with a BSN. The ANA differentiates between them, but the civilian industry does not. If the civilian hospitals ever decided that there isn't a nursing shortage and only show interest in hiring those with BSNs, all the junior colleges will dry up overnight.

I personally knew a captain in the Air Force a while back (I think it was a previous life :) ) who only had an ADN. But at that time the military really needed nurses, so they commissoned ADNs not on their eductaion but on their professional liscense of RN.

It all depends on how bad they need nurses. End the nursing shortage with a bad economy and you'll end the ADN as an entry-level degree to professional nursing.

Do you think this is true?

NO!!!!!!!!!!!

you forget the aging demographic of our country...record numbers of nurses are over 40 now...and graying. the average age of the RN is 46, if I recall correctly ( if not exactly, darn close to it)...

and young people are NOT taking their places in equal numbers.

60% of today's RN's hold ADN's right now. (did you know this?)

So with these facts alone, how can you possibly believe your claim? If this were true, why are we shopping overseas for RN's to fill our shortages?

Also, how do you propose to bring BSN education to rural areas that ARE SERVED ONLY BY COMMUNITY COLLEGES, where the nearest 4 year university is more than 100 miles away??? (such as was my case).......

No way will community colleges "dry up"...not unless you have a way to change demographic trends and the fact that many experienced RN's quit because conditions make it so they don't wish to practice unsafely or be abused any longer.

I can't see any logic in your post, sorry.

Trauma Columnist · Nov 4, 2003

I was an LPN who did a bridge to the ADN and am currently in school for the ADN to MSN. While I believe that an MSN is necessary for the career path I want to take, I think the ADN certainly is a good solid start for an RN.

Agnus · Nov 4, 2003

Here we go again:rolleyes:

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Nov 4, 2003

Originally posted by Berkeley
It all depends on how bad they need nurses. End the nursing shortage with a bad economy and you'll end the ADN as an entry-level degree to professional nursing.

This is a good economy??????????????

Berkeley · Nov 4, 2003

originally posted by smilingblueyes
no!!!!!!!!!!!

you forget the aging demographic of our country...record numbers of nurses are over 40 now...and graying. the average age of the rn is 46, if i recall correctly ( if not exactly, darn close to it)...

and young people are not taking their places in equal numbers.

60% of today's rn's hold adn's right now. (did you know this?)

yes, i know that.

so with these facts alone, how can you possibly believe your claim? if this were true, why are we shopping overseas for rn's to fill our shortages?

obviously, you're not into critical reading. i said, if the nursing shortage were to end...

also, how do you propose to bring bsn education to rural areas that are served only by community colleges, where the nearest 4 year university is more than 100 miles away??? (such as was my case).......

with money from the government...who knows. who cares? doctors and nps go to those areas, so...

no way will community colleges "dry up"...not unless you have a way to change demographic trends and the fact that many experienced rn's quit because conditions make it so they don't wish to practice unsafely or be abused any longer.

i'm speaking strictly economics here.

i can't see any logic in your post, sorry.

well, you wouldn't, since you didn't really address my post to begin with. i said (or meant anyway) that if there were no nursing shortage, the civilian sector could pick and choose who they hired and the trend would go toward hiring bsn nurses.

at any rate, thank for the reply.

Bevi · Nov 4, 2003

Berk........ are you little flamer or what?

Q. · Nov 4, 2003

Berk,

I could see your claim. Obviously, with a shortage, one could argue that basically any warm body will do; facilities care less about quality and focus on quantity - to staff the floors. I think this is evident by the creation of several unlicensed assistive roles in the past 5-10 years.

As far as rural areas, again, these areas are and can be served by NPs and docs. Why couldn't nurses who are schooled elsewhere?

This is why the whole healthcare thing just gives me a headache. I'm a proponent of the BSN being the minumum requirment, for a host of reasons but the biggest being to stay current with our colleagues in healthcare who do require a 4 year degree (Physical Therapists, Social Workers, etc). I also hate the nursing shortage and there seems to be no easy fix. I left bedside nursing to teach and as a result I make less than a new grad, despite my degree and despite my being enrolled in graduate school. I don't feel valued. I don't feel nurses as a whole value their profession or value education or value much of anything. We're not respected by administration, and who knows why that is? Because we take it? Because we're complacent? Because I've seen so many nurses who are great clinicians at the bedside, but can't even write a coherent paragraph, much less speak publically in an influential manner about concerns in front of a Board of Directors? Are these the reasons we're not respected by administration?

Unfortunately the only recourse is usually to leave the profession entirely. That, or stay in it and try to influence change - which is what I try to do, but get paid less to do so and often at the expense of justifying my "alphabet soup" behind my name. Frankly, it gets old very, very fast.

Berkeley · Nov 4, 2003

Originally posted by Bevi
Berk........ are you little flamer or what?

Are you trying to say I'm gay? I'm not gay, but even if I were I don't think I would call people that. I don't think anything I have said warrants personal insults, so with all due respect, I'd rather you just left me alone. And I'm surprised that a senior member would resort to name-calling.

Be that as it may, it won't stop me from enjoying these discussions as much as the next person.

Berkeley · Nov 4, 2003

originally posted by susy k
berk,
i could see your claim. obviously, with a shortage, one could argue that basically any warm body will do; facilities care less about quality and focus on quantity - to staff the floors. i think this is evident by the creation of several unlicensed assistive roles in the past 5-10 years.

well, but haven't lpns and cnas been around for a long time?

as far as rural areas, again, these areas are and can be served by nps and docs. why couldn't nurses who are schooled elsewhere?

this is why the whole healthcare thing just gives me a headache. i'm a proponent of the bsn being the minumum requirment, for a host of reasons but the biggest being to stay current with our colleagues in healthcare who do require a 4 year degree (physical therapists, social workers, etc). i also hate the nursing shortage and there seems to be no easy fix. i left bedside nursing to teach and as a result i make less than a new grad, despite my degree and despite my being enrolled in graduate school. i don't feel valued.

you don't feel valued, because you get paid less than a bedside nurse? is that really fair? shouldn't the bedside nurse get the highest pay?

i don't feel nurses as a whole value their profession or value education or value much of anything. we're not respected by administration, and who knows why that is? because we take it? because we're complacent? because i've seen so many nurses who are great clinicians at the bedside, but can't even write a coherent paragraph, much less speak publically in an influential manner about concerns in front of a board of directors? are these the reasons we're not respected by administration?

i guess it depends on where you are. i agree that most people can't write well or speak well, but where i'm at they seem to bend over backwards for the nursing staff. perhaps i just have low expectations.

unfortunately the only recourse is usually to leave the profession entirely. that, or stay in it and try to influence change - which is what i try to do, but get paid less to do so and often at the expense of justifying my "alphabet soup" behind my name. frankly, it gets old very, very fast.

what would make you love it again?

kimtab · Nov 4, 2003

Berkeley,

A flamer is someone who uses incendiary language in an online forum.

Bevi · Nov 4, 2003

Originally posted by Berkeley
Are you trying to say I'm gay? I'm not gay, but even if I were I don't think I would call people that.

(big lonnnnnnng sigh) no berk... i am not calling you gay. and i really..... REALLY resent your implication that being called gay would be some sort of insult.

You sound as if perhaps you're young...or....well....intolerant in respect to diversity issues.

(that is MY opinion, and i may be wrong, and i acknowledge that i may be wrong)

A flamer is someone who comes to a board with the express mission of getting people into an uproar. A flamer is someone who likes to see ppl get all worked up.

have a tolerant day.