When the hospital kills people

Virgo_RN, BSN, RN · Jul 16, 2008

A decreased neutrophil count can also indicate overwhelming bacterial infection, particularly in elderly folks. She could have been ill when she was admitted.

MisterSimba, BSN · Jul 16, 2008

Wouldn't any elderly patient (especially one with a low white blood count) be at a high risk for picking up a nosocomial infection and possibly even dying from it? Just based on what you're describing, it doesn't sound like negligence on anyone's part..... although I don't understand why she had to be admitted to the hospital if she was fine (with the exception of the low WBC). Poor lady!

FireStarterRN, BSN, RN · Jul 16, 2008

This woman felt well when she went to the doctors. The low white count was an incidental finding.

Actually, it sounds to me that she died of a nosocomial infection. Yes, this does happen, no sense in denying that stark reality.

Hospitals are hotbeds for superbugs. Lab personnel, housekeeping, nursing staff, they go from patient to patient, carrying these bugs.

Hospitals are dangerous places.

Virgo_RN, BSN, RN · Jul 16, 2008

Not denying that nosocomial infections occur. Just putting on my critical thinking cap here. Your information is second hand, and as you've stated, you don't know her medical history. Perhaps your step father doesn't have all of the information needed to know what really happened.

How well do you know this woman? Is it within the realm of possibility that she really *wasn't* feeling fine, but that she's one of those people who doesn't like to be fussed over, so she would say she was fine when she wasn't?

That being said, I've seen some things that make you go "Hmmmmm.....", and I don't deny the reality that many deaths that occur in hospitals can be prevented. I guess I'm just not ready to jump to conclusions based upon anecdotal information that could easily be inaccurate.

I am sorry for the woman's family's loss, though, whatever the cause.

**canoehead, BSN, RN** · Jul 16, 2008

Once they started doing invasive tests it was possible for her to contract a bug. that has to be weighed against the fact that they could find a treatable illness with the tests. Unfortunately it's hard to communicate risks and benefits accurately, especially to someone who hasn't been in the healthcare system. The doc is also lawsuit concious- even if there was nothing wrong with the woman, possibly he would miss something by not doing the tests, and possibly he would be sued for not treating aggressively. You can't sue if someone does their best and things still go wrong, and how docs show they've done their best is to do more and more tests.

psalm, RN · Jul 16, 2008

My mil is one of those older people who will complain about the heat and how awful she feels but she won't put her air conditioner on! She will prob. be one to die of dehydration. It irritates me, I live 3 hours away and we talk frequently...but there's not much I can do about it.

"I'm so hot, it is so awful"

"Do you have your air conditioner on?"

"...I have my fan going."

"Mom, turn the air on, the fan isn't making you any more comfortable"

"Well............................................................................."

"Are you drinking water and juice?"

"I had my coffee.................."

"Coffee is okay if you drink lots of water and juice as well."

Some older people will not ask for any help but love to complain to the relative who is hours away and can't do anything about it. They will literally die before asking a neighbor or friend from church to drive them to the dr. office or get a prescription for them.

I am sorry for your loss, but maybe she wasn't really well and just didn't want to say anything. AND I think of the people who go for a check-up, feeling fine, to find out they have leukemia or something else life-threatening.

Having said that, I realize hospitals are full of germs, but so is the local restaurant, rest room, beauty parlor, bar, nail salon, etc.

suanna · Jul 16, 2008

Keep in mind that many of our older folks see hospitals and medicine in general with a jaded eye. The health care of today is much different from what they knew 20-30 years ago. It is not uncommon to hear " all those doctors want is your money, ..hospitals don't help anyone, once you go in you ain't never comming out...all they do is poke and prod you with a bunch of tests and in the end, if you are going to die they can't do nothin' about it". I can't see a doc admitting a patient without a strong suspicion of a serious problem. You dad knows about the low white count but there may have been any number of suspicious anomalies in the docs assessment that warrented admission. He may have even discussed them with your dad but memory is tricky-esp when a loved one is ill and the mind is focused on other things. In my experience it is very difficult to kill a healthy person with incidental contact- even in our resistant strain, bug filled hospitals. My guess, your dad is still grieving and the hospital is as good a place to blame for his wifes death as anyone. He is entitled to believe whatever he wants if it helps him come to terms with his loss. Just keep in mind you are getting a very incomplete picture.

MassED, BSN, RN · Jul 16, 2008

I was talking to my Step Father today. His ex-wife (the one before my mom) died. She had gone to the doctor for a routine checkup, she wasn't feeling sick at all. She had a low white count when they did the labwork.
The doctor decided to put her in the hospital for a battery of tests, maybe because she was over 80. I don't know her medical history, but he told me that she was healthy and feeling fine when she went in.
In the hospital, she got sicker and sicker with each test. She ended up with pneumonia, ended up on a ventilator, and then she died.
It makes me sick, because I know what hospitals are like. Staff is rushed, housekeeping sometimes does a poor job, nurses are busy filling our pain flow sheets, fall assessment sheets, careplans, documenting in triplicate, defensive charting up the ying yang.
There is a shortage of staff and a shortage of time.
Yes, this lady sounds as if she were neutropenic. Maybe it was a side effect of a medication she was on. But, it sounds like going to the hospital killed her.

sounds like she possibly was quite sick to be admitted for "tests" in the first place. If she was not that ill, the doc could have performed the tests on an outpatient basis. There must be more to her medical hx.

hypocaffeinemia, BSN, RN · Jul 16, 2008

sounds like she possibly was quite sick to be admitted for "tests" in the first place. If she was not that ill, the doc could have performed the tests on an outpatient basis. There must be more to her medical hx.

I was thinking the same thing.

BlueRidgeHomeRN · Jul 16, 2008

hospitals are hotbeds for superbugs. lab personnel, housekeeping, nursing staff, they go from patient to patient, carrying these bugs.

you left out the biggest culprit--doctors!! apparently germs don't stick to them like they do to everyone else, making handwashing and isolation precautions unneccessary! :banghead:

mpccrn, BSN, RN · Jul 16, 2008

hospitals are the most germ infested environments short of the CDC.....do you think that's why we ask that kids and babies dont visit?......hmmmm funny thing though, the people who have to work in such environments DON'T GET SICK TIME!.....i'm sorry for your loss. a low white count doesn't bode well for a person in a hospital. it just lets her open for soooo many things. :crying2: