In other words, "diploma mills." Of course, it's all for profit. I'm from the state of California, I just came to realize that there were private schools that accept anyone who is able to pay tuition regardless of grades. I also came to notice that the majority of community colleges have a waiting list indoctrinated into their admissions. As long as you maintain at least a 2.0 GPA, isn't the waiting list a major flaw for being admitted? Then, obtaining good grades and work ethic wouldn't be essential at all. A student could simply just half ass their way through the courses and still get in
I'm all for the point systems, but it seems that admittance to nursing schools are so easy nowadays as long as your in the right circumstance and situation. Trust me, I have seen some dumbass nursing students who are unable to multiply and it freaks me out. Some of them are unable to recall the basic characteristics of a cell!!!
Not for nothing but I can't say that knowing the basic characteristics of a cell is something I can say I have ever used as a nurse......There are things you learn in school that really have no practical use for a nurse--I mean really....how many times have you used that darned crebs cycle in your daily work as a nurse people?!?! lol
Specializes in Case mgmt., rehab, (CRRN), LTC & psych.
Trust me, I have seen some dumbass nursing students who are unable to multiply and it freaks me out. Some of them are unable to recall the basic characteristics of a cell!!!
It's not about what you know. Rather, it's all about who you know.
The dummy graduate nurse with plenty of connections, recommendations, and friends in high places is often going to get the prestigious job offer quicker than the brilliant GN with the 4.0 grade point average who lacks the influential connections, contacts, or prominent friends.
In addition, personality is a biggie. Dumb people often have wonderful personalities that radiate and attract people, including HR folks and hiring managers.
OP, what ridiculous statements! All types of people with all types of GPA's shoudl and do go into nursing and pass NCLEX-RN. Who are you to say that just because someone came from a for-profit school or a community college is less of a professional than someone with a BSN from a fancy school??? How prejudiced! And to MentalHealthRN, you may not use the Kreb's cycle in your practice, but do you understand what it might mean to a nurse who is concerned about their patient's energy level? Intelligent people come in all sizes, shapes, colors, and backgrounds.
Not for nothing but I can't say that knowing the basic characteristics of a cell is something I can say I have ever used as a nurse......There are things you learn in school that really have no practical use for a nurse--I mean really....how many times have you used that darned crebs cycle in your daily work as a nurse people?!?! lol
FYI: It's the Kreb's cycle. Sorry, I had to point that out, as I'm a biochem geek. But yeah, I understand what you're saying. For me, though, I do think that understanding the "big picture" is extremely helpful.
These issues are a lot more complicated than most people realize. The system is a mess -- in a lot of ways.
1. What do I think of students churning out graduates who are unprepared to succeed in the workplace? I think they are unethical and should be shut down. They are taking the money of the students (and the taxpayers paying for their student loans) and counting on the NCLEX and the employers to protect the public from these under-prepared graduates.
2. What do I think of schools that lure in marginal students -- only to flunk them out when they show that they are likely to fail the NCLEX? Again, I think they are behaving unethically and should be shut down. Those gullible students are lured into the schools by recruiters who tell them that the school will teach them, give them the necessary skills, etc. ... and then flunk them out before graduation so that their NCLEX pass rates remain acceptable. They take the students' money (and the money of the taxpayers paying for their student loans), but do not deliver a competent professional nurse in the end.
In both cases, the student who pays the money, ends up in debt -- but doesn't end up with the skills necessary for a good nursing career suffers and ends up in debt. The taxpayers get cheated out of their money. But the school suffers nothing while they rake in the money.
If you are attending a school that graduates far fewer students than it admits ... think about that. If you are considering applying to such a school -- RUN AWAY! Do not become the next "sucker."
Community Colleges have long waiting lists as a weeding out system and a very small percentage of students ever make it to the top.. They make students take Anatomy and physiology for the medical professions and various other prerequisites, usually with a minimum of a B- in order to even progress up the list. At my school, about 50% of students who take A&P 1 and 2, fail out of them, let alone pulling a B- to make it in. It is the most applied to program on a campus with thousands of students, yet they only graduate about 12 nurses a year. Of the 36 students that make it into their first clinical, only a 3rd will graduate. You have to work your butt off to have any hope of graduating from an ADN program, and this community college consistently has a higher NCLEX pass rate than any of the BSN programs in the state.
A somewhat similar situation in my part of the world. Rather than a waiting list though, my local community college based admission solely on NET score. That means of the thousand or so who want to get into the nursing program, only the top 120 or so scorers (that's more or less the number of slots in the program) on the NET were admitted. For those who did not get in, the NET would need to be retaken and the potential student must then reapply. Students may take the NET a maximum of of 3 times. As a result, admission into the CC nursing program was fairly selective and there were many with very good grades in Bio, Chem A&P etc and even folks who already had college degrees who were unable to get in.
The stated reason for using test scores rather than GPA for admitance was that the NET was supposed to be a reliable predictor of success in the program and on the NCLEX. This proved to be partly the case: We lost very few students for academic reasons during the course of the program (probably less than 10%). However, first-time NCLEX pass rates stayed about the same in the 88-89% range - good but certainly not great. The CC has now gone to using a weighted formula system using a different objective test (TEAS) along with GPA and it will be interesting to see what effect this has.
Ironically, despite the excellent reputation of the CC nursing program among area institutions and notwithstanding the rather harsh admission process, many, if not most local hospitals and even nursing homes will no longer hire new ADN-RNs and are now demanding a BSN as the minimum credential. As a result, something like 90% of my May graduating class have been unable to find nursing jobs. I know that this is not the case everywhere but it does seem to be a growing trend.
Do any of you older RN's remember the 1965 position paper put out by the ANA about only hiring nurses with bachelor's degrees? That has been tried before. It never works. Hospitals can't afford it. I know nurses with LPN, ADN, and BSN...some are great some are mediocre. Just like every other occupation. The person makes the professional....not the degree. It's the "Magnet status" thing. All hospitals in my area want to have "Magnet status". And that requires you to have an almost all BSN staff. It's all about money.....just my 2 cents. BTW, hospitals pay for companies to make them "Magnet status". "Magnet status"...phoey!
I think that schools that churn out nurses are good and bad. Good because if we decided all nurses need to have a University education we would have a great shortage... so going that route will probably never work out. Bad because being a LPN in one year seems too soon (I am one). I think to really BE a nurse you need more education then the basics in everything thrown into a year. My school was 6 week long classes. 6 weeks mental health, 6 weeks med/surg 1, 6 weeks med/surg 2.. etc... I do not think that is a very good education and honestly forgot a lot of what I learned because I had to cram it all in so fast. So it has it's benefits: we need nurses at all levels (LPN, RN, BSN). Having a BSN work the cart at a nursing home for 17$ an hour would never fly, so we NEED LPNs. But they are bad because it's too fast and too easy, and I am new to nursing but I have already seen the difference in understanding of nursing between LPNs I work with and RNs I work with....
My problem with the 'for profit' schools is they cost way to much. Nurse wages are stagnate right now and we are not as 'in demand' as we used to be - especially new grads. Thereby their graduates run the risk of being worse off than when they started and defaulting on their loans.
These schools, (Concorde, Westwood, Duvry, ect) are coming under scrutiny by the gov't for giving subpar educations, having high drop out rates and targeting low income students. Mostly they are just after student loan $$ and are laughing all the way to the bank.
I saw a documentary on CNBC the other day and there is one on PBS as well that explains their shady and deceitful tactics. The PBS one details them attempting to start a nursing school in a 'low income' area and has a group of nursing grads who no one will hire b/c of inadequate clinical experience.
I think I am going to email my elected officials today in support of them being better regulated.
Oh there are all kinds of nursing programs popping up and churning out new grads. I won't lie..my place was one of them! I can't believe I graduated..but I especially cannot believe most of my ignorant classmates graduated. Some of the nastiest most unintelligent people ever. This is why nursing will ONLY keep heading downhill. I'm so glad I didn't waste 4 years on a BSN to figure out that this field sucks.
Please don't forget that just because someone graduates from nursing school (some have been known to cheat their way through) doesn't mean they will pass NCLEX-RN! I know one former student who took NCLEX-RN 5 times...failed all 5 times. Yet she graduated from nursing school.
Sorry, I had to point that out, as I'm a biochem geek. But yeah, I understand what you're saying. For me, though, I do think that understanding the "big picture" is extremely helpful.
mentalhealthRN
433 Posts
Not for nothing but I can't say that knowing the basic characteristics of a cell is something I can say I have ever used as a nurse......There are things you learn in school that really have no practical use for a nurse--I mean really....how many times have you used that darned crebs cycle in your daily work as a nurse people?!?! lol