What do you think of the nursing schools that churn out graduates in a instant...?

bree* · Jan 20, 2011

Please don't forget that just because someone graduates from nursing school (some have been known to cheat their way through) doesn't mean they will pass NCLEX-RN! I know one former student who took NCLEX-RN 5 times...failed all 5 times. Yet she graduated from nursing school.

Most of my class cheated ALL the way through. It was reported to administration and a blind eye was turned! So sad. Only one person that I know of has failed NCLEX-PN in my class...might be more. Who knows? It's still very scary to think these kind of people are going into health care and going to take care of others and be responsible for their lives. The trend of nursing is just going down, down, down.I don't know if I can respect this field anymore. Like I said, I am probably one of the ones who shouldn't have even graduated, but because they were busy bending over backward making it easy for everyone else, I barely had to put in much effort to pass with B's and an A here and there. So sad.

OldNurseEducator · Jan 20, 2011

Please keep in mind...if you don't pass NCLEX-RN or PN, you don't practice nursing in this country. People that cheat are only cheating themselves. NCLEX is hard...take a look at the results on your local BON website. Lots of schools have reselts under 90% passing. Some of that may have been a result of cheating through school. Just my 2 cents. :nurse:

laughdontcry · Jan 20, 2011

In other words, "diploma mills." Of course, it's all for profit. I'm from the state of California, I just came to realize that there were private schools that accept anyone who is able to pay tuition regardless of grades. I also came to notice that the majority of community colleges have a waiting list indoctrinated into their admissions. As long as you maintain at least a 2.0 GPA, isn't the waiting list a major flaw for being admitted? Then, obtaining good grades and work ethic wouldn't be essential at all. A student could simply just half ass their way through the courses and still get in
I'm all for the point systems, but it seems that admittance to nursing schools are so easy nowadays as long as your in the right circumstance and situation. Trust me, I have seen some dumbass nursing students who are unable to multiply and it freaks me out. Some of them are unable to recall the basic characteristics of a cell!!!
Just wondering, what do you think?

If he/she passes the NCLEX then that person has the right to be called a nurse. Maybe you should proof read your post before you post...."nowadays as long as your in the right circumstance and situation."

gentlegiver, ASN, LPN, RN · Jan 20, 2011

Having a BSN work the cart at a nursing home for 17$ an hour would never fly, so we NEED LPNs. But they are bad because it's too fast and too easy, and I am new to nursing but I have already seen the difference in understanding of nursing between LPNs I work with and RNs I work with....

I am an LPN, I am not "bad"! Yes, the program I went thru was 10 months. That was after going thru the same A&P, Pharm, Soch and Psych classes the RN students went thru. So it was actually, 3 yrs of studies to qualify for the NCLEX we had to pass to get our licence. Yes, you do need us. Have you ever worked in a LTC facility? Do you realize that it is predominately staffed by LPNs? Do you understand just what that job entails? Constant assessments on patients that change in seconds, understanding the mind set of a dementia patient w/o knowing thier life history (many things set them off for what most think is no reason, but somewhere in thier life something happened that makes them scared today), catching emergent situations and dealing with them, most of this is done w/o a DR in the building, as they come in once or twice a week. What I would give to work in a hospital where I have staff to step in to preform CPR, have a Doctor in the building, start IVs, have a lab in the building (as opposed to waiting for pick-up, and results), MRIs, CAT Scans, on site pharmacys, etc...Please do not judge LPNs in that manner. We are taught to think on our feet, move fast, determine the best care for that patient, work with minimal supplies, and we do this while caring for 20 to 50 patients at a time. We may not see all the life threatening injuries you see at a hospital, but, we have MIs, strokes, brain and other bleeds, diabetics, MS, and every type of emergency onset hospitals have. Please revise you comment about LPN's being "bad". We are not, we just practice on a different level than an RN but, we are just as good at what we do. As for the pay, believe me it's a toss up between CNA's and LPN's as to who is the most underpaid. In most cases it's the CNA who works thier behinds off for just above minimum wage that is not paid what thier worth. But then LTC also pays LPNs so far below thier worth, but, LPNs are stuck in LTC, unless they want to make less in a Dr's office or clinic.

OldNurseEducator · Jan 20, 2011

After several years of teaching in a PN program, I can tell you that it is extremely fast-paced and requires a lot of study. Anyone that doesn't respect an LPN for what he/she has accomplished is just plain foolish! :twocents:

llg, PhD, RN · Jan 20, 2011

Oh there are all kinds of nursing programs popping up and churning out new grads. I won't lie..my place was one of them! I can't believe I graduated..but I especially cannot believe most of my ignorant classmates graduated. Some of the nastiest most unintelligent people ever. This is why nursing will ONLY keep heading downhill. I'm so glad I didn't waste 4 years on a BSN to figure out that this field sucks.

Thank you for your honesty. Some of these new "quickie" programs are really bad and they are hurting the nursing profession. Fortunately for the profession, the better institutions have realized that the graduates of such programs are deficient and those graduates may have an increasingly hard time finding good jobs in the future. The better hospitals are also starting to cut such schools off from the best clinical learning sites. State boards are also starting to crack down on some of the worst schools. With any luck, this trend will continue and some of the worst schools will not be in business much longer -- or at least they may shrink in size as people realize they don't lead to good careers.

There has been a movement within nursing to upgrade the educational standards. These schools may just be pushing things to limit in a way that tips the scales in favor of those trying to raise the standards.

RLtinker, LPN · Jan 20, 2011

From the point of a CC...

Churn them out, I don't think so. At least not at my ASN program. My school takes 60 RN and 60 LPN in the fall and in the spring. There is a 70% graduation rate and the pass rate on the NCLEX-RN in '09 was 93.79. The program is competitive and based on a point system. The "GPA" points are based on four classes, AP 1, AP2, English, and Psychology. The AP classes are worth twice as much as the English and psychology. If you don't have an A in all four classes you will not get in, and classes can only be taken twice. The second part of the point system is based on the TEAS, typically this has been in the 90's (but TEAS V may change that). Before entering the program you must have completed 31-35 credit hours in pre req's. Once in the program there are another 38 credits to complete for a total of 69-73 credit hours. And then of course you have to pass the NCLEX-RN.

I have been down the BS road before, it may be longer, it cost more, but you also take more classes that don't relate to the medical field.

I can't speak for “Profit schools”.

RxOnly · Jan 20, 2011

Thank you! I couldn't have said this better myself :)

I am an LPN, I am not "bad"! Yes, the program I went thru was 10 months. That was after going thru the same A&P, Pharm, Soch and Psych classes the RN students went thru. So it was actually, 3 yrs of studies to qualify for the NCLEX we had to pass to get our licence. Yes, you do need us. Have you ever worked in a LTC facility? Do you realize that it is predominately staffed by LPNs? Do you understand just what that job entails? Constant assessments on patients that change in seconds, understanding the mind set of a dementia patient w/o knowing thier life history (many things set them off for what most think is no reason, but somewhere in thier life something happened that makes them scared today), catching emergent situations and dealing with them, most of this is done w/o a DR in the building, as they come in once or twice a week. What I would give to work in a hospital where I have staff to step in to preform CPR, have a Doctor in the building, start IVs, have a lab in the building (as opposed to waiting for pick-up, and results), MRIs, CAT Scans, on site pharmacys, etc...Please do not judge LPNs in that manner. We are taught to think on our feet, move fast, determine the best care for that patient, work with minimal supplies, and we do this while caring for 20 to 50 patients at a time. We may not see all the life threatening injuries you see at a hospital, but, we have MIs, strokes, brain and other bleeds, diabetics, MS, and every type of emergency onset hospitals have. Please revise you comment about LPN's being "bad". We are not, we just practice on a different level than an RN but, we are just as good at what we do. As for the pay, believe me it's a toss up between CNA's and LPN's as to who is the most underpaid. In most cases it's the CNA who works thier behinds off for just above minimum wage that is not paid what thier worth. But then LTC also pays LPNs so far below thier worth, but, LPNs are stuck in LTC, unless they want to make less in a Dr's office or clinic.

Nurse Cathy Foley · Jan 20, 2011

I am an LPN, I am not "bad"! Yes, the program I went thru was 10 months. That was after going thru the same A&P, Pharm, Soch and Psych classes the RN students went thru. So it was actually, 3 yrs of studies to qualify for the NCLEX we had to pass to get our licence. Yes, you do need us. Have you ever worked in a LTC facility? Do you realize that it is predominately staffed by LPNs? Do you understand just what that job entails? Constant assessments on patients that change in seconds, understanding the mind set of a dementia patient w/o knowing thier life history (many things set them off for what most think is no reason, but somewhere in thier life something happened that makes them scared today), catching emergent situations and dealing with them, most of this is done w/o a DR in the building, as they come in once or twice a week. What I would give to work in a hospital where I have staff to step in to preform CPR, have a Doctor in the building, start IVs, have a lab in the building (as opposed to waiting for pick-up, and results), MRIs, CAT Scans, on site pharmacys, etc...Please do not judge LPNs in that manner. We are taught to think on our feet, move fast, determine the best care for that patient, work with minimal supplies, and we do this while caring for 20 to 50 patients at a time. We may not see all the life threatening injuries you see at a hospital, but, we have MIs, strokes, brain and other bleeds, diabetics, MS, and every type of emergency onset hospitals have. Please revise you comment about LPN's being "bad". We are not, we just practice on a different level than an RN but, we are just as good at what we do. As for the pay, believe me it's a toss up between CNA's and LPN's as to who is the most underpaid. In most cases it's the CNA who works thier behinds off for just above minimum wage that is not paid what thier worth. But then LTC also pays LPNs so far below thier worth, but, LPNs are stuck in LTC, unless they want to make less in a Dr's office or clinic.

i didn't mean LPNs were bad, I was talking about the schools and the fact that their programs are so fast! I am not sure of you read my post completely but I am an LPN. I was strictly talking about the schools, not LPNs personally

jollydogg_RN, ADN, BSN · Jan 21, 2011

It's not about what you know. Rather, it's all about who you know.
The dummy graduate nurse with plenty of connections, recommendations, and friends in high places is often going to get the prestigious job offer quicker than the brilliant GN with the 4.0 grade point average who lacks the influential connections, contacts, or prominent friends.
In addition, personality is a biggie. Dumb people often have wonderful personalities that radiate and attract people, including HR folks and hiring managers.

What a horribly misguided statement. Here we go yet again with ANOTHER variation of the As vs Cs nursing students. (or, the "brilliant" 4.0 gpa students versus the "Everyone else" students)

I've often found that in nursing, its not your grades, its the opportunities you create for YOURSELF that get you places. And how can you help it if you know people who know people? Can you BLAME that person for getting into a program if its easier to do so, or to take that job because someone you know can get a good word in for you?

I have known some of these "brilliant" 4.0 GN nurses you talk about, but they have the personality of an ice cube. And then you have the RN like me: I made Cs in nursing school (albeit 82s and 83s, which would be Bs in other classes, so not really bad), but yet I am charismatic, have an outgoing personality, and a great sense of humor.

Dumb people often have wonderful personalities? So its ok for a "brilliant 4.0 GN" with a horrible personality to get a job, but its not ok for a "dumb" nurse (or in your case, you probably mean a nurse that could use more practical experience to help him/her feel more comfortable) with a GREAT personality and amazing people skills to get a job?

Should re-evaluate your comments. It's that kind of bad attitude that continues to divide nurses everywhere. EVERYONE has a chance to bring something useful and informative to the table, its just a lot of times some people are automatically excluded because of horrible stereotypes like you just portrayed.

delilas · Jan 21, 2011

My school came under fire after their LPN and RN mass grew to around 400 students; you can call it a diploma mill (graduating RN students in 2.5 years), but we have a 47% fail rate (failure to complete because the courses are damn difficult) and a 94% NCLEX pass rate.

If they're state certified, their curriculum is approved just like any four year college (and BTW, most 4 year schools that are not state schools are still for profit...so I'm not sure why there is a prejudice against the smaller ones). I get that there are real nasty for-profit colleges out there that have no real acceptance policies and little education to be had, but its a stereotype that's getting kicked at legitimate ADN schools as well now.

hiddencatRN, BSN, RN · Jan 21, 2011

Here we go yet again with ANOTHER variation of the As vs Cs nursing students. (or, the "brilliant" 4.0 gpa students versus the "Everyone else" students)

As opposed to yet another variation on how students with As are merely book smart and lacking in any social or hands on skills?

This oft-repeated binary is just as tiresome, imo.