In other words, "diploma mills." Of course, it's all for profit. I'm from the state of California, I just came to realize that there were private schools that accept anyone who is able to pay tuition regardless of grades. I also came to notice that the majority of community colleges have a waiting list indoctrinated into their admissions. As long as you maintain at least a 2.0 GPA, isn't the waiting list a major flaw for being admitted? Then, obtaining good grades and work ethic wouldn't be essential at all. A student could simply just half ass their way through the courses and still get in
I'm all for the point systems, but it seems that admittance to nursing schools are so easy nowadays as long as your in the right circumstance and situation. Trust me, I have seen some dumbass nursing students who are unable to multiply and it freaks me out. Some of them are unable to recall the basic characteristics of a cell!!!
As opposed to yet another variation on how students with As are merely book smart and lacking in any social or hands on skills?
This oft-repeated binary is just as tiresome, imo.
I never anywhere in my statements said that A students are booksmart with no personality. Please show me where I made that statement. Please.
I have known all the ranges of nurses: The 4.0 ones who ARE great with everything they do, the 4.0 ones that are lacking, the C students that are great with skills, personality, everything else, and then the C students who are borderline everything but could use a little more attention and help that most of them probably never get.
I was refering to the poster's comments about comparing "dummy" nurses and "brilliant" nurses. I think you all know what I'm talking about.
I have known some of these "brilliant" 4.0 GN nurses you talk about, but they have the personality of an ice cube.
And then you have the RN like me: I made Cs in nursing school (albeit 82s and 83s, which would be Bs in other classes, so not really bad), but yet I am charismatic, have an outgoing personality, and a great sense of humor.
There you go.
Any time someone talks about grades being an indicator of quality/ability/anything, people chime in about all the super socially awkward A students they know and the C students who are great with people.
Specializes in Psych,Peds,MedSurg,Tele,OB,Subacute.
I am originally from cali so I know EXACTLY what you are talking about and I wonder the same thing. I live in Utah now and am finishing up my prereqs for the nursing program, I also know a girl who lives in cali and she is trying to get into a program and even at the community college she is going to the prereqs are NOTHING, like a couple of bio classes, that it....but I know there are private ones that have NO prereqs, as you said all they need is $$ to get in. Here in Utah the programs are grades ONLY no lottery, if you do not have a 3.5 gpa forget it. they will TAKE the application with a 3.0 but thats about it. The prereqs here are several math, and english, plus your sciences,psych, and CNA. thats just the ADN program, you cannot even apply for BSN program non pre licensure route or the bridge route unless ALL graduates prereqs ared done plus add'l sciences such as patho, and micro plus what u already took. I am really struggling with jealousy right now. i ahve been working my orifice off trying for A's in everything for the hopes to get in. when my friend can just go to a college and "sign up" ????? You are so right it doesnt seem fair AT ALL, not to mention what quality of nurse is being turned out???My apologies....I saw your post and had to get that off my chest...it's been eating at me lately.....i apologize , not meaning to offend anyone in there....
I guess what bugs me more about those schools, or any school for that matter is the people who are doing it for the money... If you are doing it for the pure passion of helping others then fine... but the people who are in there for the money really just bug the crap outta me... most of them dont make it past the first semester, but still, find something you are really truly passionate about and then go for it!
I also have to add that these schools are not easy to get into, and do not turn out graduates like you would think... I had a class of 30 to begin with, and now there are probably 20 and we are only about to enter our 3rd semester...
Hah, you all sneer about private schools, well read this: I had a University BSN student (4th year) ask to shadow me for 6 hours in ICU. Fine, she said her biggest problem was meds. OK, lets look at pt. profiles and see what meds are there, and why. Turns out this BSN candidate cannot identify ANY class of drugs; {the SAIDs, the PRILS, the OLOLS, the PAMS), it turns out she was told by her instructors that she "will learn all this on the job"!
How can any new grad POSSIBLY hope to 'make it" when she has to learn basic pharmacolgy "on the job". What the heck ever happened to learning your pt's drugs, actions and side effects before caring for them in clinical?
Heck, what ever happened to students prepping for clinical the night before?
Specializes in Psych,Peds,MedSurg,Tele,OB,Subacute.
I guess that just goes to show it can happen anywhere. I was not trying to down any A vs C students or anything else but it is a bit frustrating when you see school that have no prereqs to get in, I cannot say whether there education is better, worse or indifferent but it just kinda eats at you to see that when you have put in an additional year or maybe even more just making the requirements to apply. Now I actually have heard the nursing advisor at my school say that some of her best students not been necessarily straight A students....her rationale was because some people can have all the book smarts but real life application is not their forte or they do not work well with people. I can totally see that too.Which makes it even MORE frustrating to see only the staright A students accepted
One thing that just recently changed in our school that evryone is irked about is one of our prereq biology classes has changed. Up until this semester you had to take bio 1610 to even get into A&P, well that is the same class the the premed/dent/vet, etc students are required to take as well. It is a dang hard class too!! Well this semester they lowered the requirement for nursing to the bio class below it which is just basic general bio, same thing that any major would take as a life science credit for graduation. My lab instructor said they changed it because..get this.....too many students complained that it was too HARD!! well boo hoo!! The professors are very angry about it as are the rest of us who took the harder class and earned a good grade. My professor said it is annoying for her to see these people come in and do half orificed work and get into programs like that and now they throw a tantrum because its too hard any admin gives in???? Obviously it is not impossible to pass because there were people, my self included that passed first try. I had overheard kids BRAG that it was like the 3rd time they took the class!! to apply to the nursing program you can only retake a class 1 time, well now all those people who failed the class 3 and 4 times are now back in the running for the program because they got the requirements dumbed down??? I think its awful!! and unfair...if you are going into healthcare you should know more bio then the general population duh!!! sorry...had to vent
Specializes in Case mgmt., rehab, (CRRN), LTC & psych.
I think its awful!! and unfair...if you are going into healthcare you should know more bio then the general population duh!!! sorry...had to vent
Considering that only 27 percent of the American adult population has graduated from college, I still think that most healthcare workers still know more bio than the general population.
Sorry, but higher education is not a reality for many people. The average American reads, writes, and comprehends the written word at a sixth to eighth grade level. Most people in this country have never set foot in a college-level biology class. So, even with a general bio class, I still think that healthcare workers have the upper hand.
who cares if you have ADN as oppose to BSN/MSN/PHd or 2.0 GPA instead of 4.0, bottomline is you pass NCLEX and have the right connections to get hired after graduation. Just my 2 cents.
For the most part, you could be right. But when I graduated from nursing school, I wanted to do a specialized internship vs. going straight to floor nursing. Every internship to which I applied required a BSN and a high GPA. So in certain circumstances, degree and grades can impact your future job prospects.
The only reason why I work for someone else is to get the money. I went to school for a second degree because like the first degree it was required to get the job that I need to get the money. Sure I chose to do the two careers out of a myriad of other careers because I hoped I would enjoy them while I work to get the money.
Some people can have all these "dreamy" thoughts about nursing, I guess if they have someone else who gets the money for them.
what a horribly misguided statement. here we go yet again with another variation of the as vs cs nursing students. (or, the "brilliant" 4.0 gpa students versus the "everyone else" students)
i've often found that in nursing, its not your grades, its the opportunities you create for yourself that get you places. and how can you help it if you know people who know people? can you blame that person for getting into a program if its easier to do so, or to take that job because someone you know can get a good word in for you?
i have known some of these "brilliant" 4.0 gn nurses you talk about, but they have the personality of an ice cube. and then you have the rn like me: i made cs in nursing school (albeit 82s and 83s, which would be bs in other classes, so not really bad), but yet i am charismatic, have an outgoing personality, and a great sense of humor.
dumb people often have wonderful personalities? so its ok for a "brilliant 4.0 gn" with a horrible personality to get a job, but its not ok for a "dumb" nurse (or in your case, you probably mean a nurse that could use more practical experience to help him/her feel more comfortable) with a great personality and amazing people skills to get a job?
should re-evaluate your comments. it's that kind of bad attitude that continues to divide nurses everywhere. everyone has a chance to bring something useful and informative to the table, its just a lot of times some people are automatically excluded because of horrible stereotypes like you just portrayed.
it's easy to go down the stereotype road, isn't it?
there are "brilliant 4.0 gn nurses" with personalities of an ice cube, and probably just as many who have great personalities and a wonderful outlook on life. there are also c average nurses who are horrible people with personalities of a slug. the gpa of a gn tells you nothing about who that person is as a whole.
i had a 4.0 gpa from a bsn program. i never have considered myself "brilliant." i do have a good sense of humor, though, and not a bad personality myself, lol. the fact is i am good at taking tests, memorizing facts, and putting the pieces together-all things that tend to lead to good grades. the gpa helped me get into a great internship (didn't have any inside contacts, unfortunately), but after i got through the door, i had to struggle just like anyone else. i never asked anyone about their credentials nor volunteered anything about my own because it pretty much becomes irrelevant once you get into the trenches. i always knew full well that there were probably some brilliant people graduating with less than stellar grades because they were working long hours in addition to going to school, raising families, etc., which can certainly impact the time one has to devote to studies. so there was never a need to even be curious about what someone's gpa was at school.
i agree with you that there is a bit of a "divide" in the nursing profession. i personally see it more as a rn vs. lpn or bsn vs. adn bias. and that's too bad, because i don't think the reality justifies the bias. i've known some great nurses in my career, and to be honest, i couldn't tell you which ones had the bsn or the adn unless they were in jobs that are noted for having advanced education requirements. and the nurse to whom everyone went at one time or another for help and advice was a very experienced lpn.
jollydogg_RN, ADN, BSN
333 Posts
I never anywhere in my statements said that A students are booksmart with no personality. Please show me where I made that statement. Please.
I have known all the ranges of nurses: The 4.0 ones who ARE great with everything they do, the 4.0 ones that are lacking, the C students that are great with skills, personality, everything else, and then the C students who are borderline everything but could use a little more attention and help that most of them probably never get.
I was refering to the poster's comments about comparing "dummy" nurses and "brilliant" nurses. I think you all know what I'm talking about.