What do you think about with current News and Opinions?

Tweety, BSN, RN · May 22, 2022

40 minutes ago, Justlookingfornow said:

Perhaps this will clarify my concerns.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/10/democrats-proving-to-be-real-extremists-abortion-roe-v-wade/

From WaPo

" It’s pretty clear to most Americans that a child who can live outside of a mother’s body shouldn’t be killed. The fact that too many Democrats can’t say that without fear of getting ambushed by the left speaks volumes about today’s Democratic Party."

"That Democrats are preparing to utterly ignore this counsel is instructive. They are pushing no-limit abortion policy either because they are afraid of their base or because they believe in it. Either way, that’s not the leadership Americans want".

Thanks for the clarification. I can understand your concerns. I'm not sure I agree with the writer that leadership is pushing a "no-limit abortion policy", as I've said most are currently maintaining the status quo and not actively seeking to change the laws.

It is frustrating that they won't answer the question when asked and take a stand. I guess in this day and age losing a few votes matter and it's best to stay neutral so as to keep all the votes. We've seen this quite often with Republicans and their Trump supporting base.

I'd like to think at the end of the day that late-term abortions won't sweep the land. In fact we're seeing the opposite. But I've been naive before. I never thought Trump would get elected and here we are.

MunoRN, RN · May 22, 2022

3 hours ago, Justlookingfornow said:

Perhaps this will clarify my concerns.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/10/democrats-proving-to-be-real-extremists-abortion-roe-v-wade/

From WaPo

" It’s pretty clear to most Americans that a child who can live outside of a mother’s body shouldn’t be killed. The fact that too many Democrats can’t say that without fear of getting ambushed by the left speaks volumes about today’s Democratic Party."

"That Democrats are preparing to utterly ignore this counsel is instructive. They are pushing no-limit abortion policy either because they are afraid of their base or because they believe in it. Either way, that’s not the leadership Americans want".

And if what he's claiming was true, I'd completely agree with you.

However the proposed bill he's referring to protects access to abortion only up until the point of fetal viability, with post-viability exceptions limited to situations where the mother is at risk.

Whether his lying was intentional or not I don't know, he might have confused himself by conflating "late term abortion" with the third trimester. "Late term abortion" isn't strictly defined by typically refers to an abortion that occurs from the start of second trimester (13 weeks) up until viability (somewhere around 24 weeks).

Text - S.4132 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): Women’s Health Protection Act of 2022 | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

toomuchbaloney · May 22, 2022

11 hours ago, Justlookingfornow said:

Perhaps this will clarify my concerns.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/10/democrats-proving-to-be-real-extremists-abortion-roe-v-wade/

From WaPo

" It’s pretty clear to most Americans that a child who can live outside of a mother’s body shouldn’t be killed. The fact that too many Democrats can’t say that without fear of getting ambushed by the left speaks volumes about today’s Democratic Party."

"That Democrats are preparing to utterly ignore this counsel is instructive. They are pushing no-limit abortion policy either because they are afraid of their base or because they believe in it. Either way, that’s not the leadership Americans want".

That is nothing more than Henry Olsen's opinion... his opinions in the WAPO are often a bit weird.

subee, MSN, CRNA · May 22, 2022

15 hours ago, Tweety said:

What vague laws are lawmakers proposing that have you concerned? Several states have passed bills, such as Colorado to maintain the status quo but not with new laws. So can you clarify further please?

Colorado is one of the few states that has late term abortion already. I've already given my position about that. Apparently lawmakers sent it to public vote to stop late term abortions but they failed as the public approved. So I do understand what you and Beerman are saying that "some people want late term abortions" and if it's allowed people will seek it to terminate an unwanted pregnancy of a healthy fetus and healthy mother, but I'm not seeing states that disallow it seeking to now allow it. Am I missing something?

Do you have any stats on how many late term abortions were done in Colorado for non medical reasons?

Tweety, BSN, RN · May 22, 2022

42 minutes ago, subee said:

Do you have any stats on how many late term abortions were done in Colorado for non medical reasons?

Pro-life people would say even one is too many.

But no, I don't, I just know from reading they are one of the few states that have it and read an article of a woman that found out late in pregnancy her child would die at birth and she traveled there for a late-term abortion.

Nationally late term abortions are very rare which makes it interesting why it's become a front and center issue for some people.

This article states it's 1% of all abortions.

Quote

The CDC does not elaborate on the breakdown by gestational age for abortions occurring past 21 weeks, but it is likely that the vast majority occur soon after 21 weeks rather than in the later in the pregnancy. While very limited data exists on this issue, a study from 1992 estimated 0.02% of all abortions occurred after 26 weeks gestation (320 to 600 cases per year). This may overestimate current day numbers, given the abortion rate is currently at a historic low, and restrictions on abortions later in pregnancy have increased.

Quote

Non-Medical Reasons: Individuals seek abortions later in pregnancy for a number of reasons. As part of the Turnaway study out of the University of California San Francisco, from 2008-2010 over 440 womenwere asked about why they experienced delays in obtaining abortion care, if any (Figure 2). Almost half of individuals who obtained an abortion after 20 weeks did not suspect they were pregnant until later in pregnancy, and other barriers to care included lack of information about where to access an abortion, transportation difficulties, lack of insurance coverage and inability to pay for the procedure. This is unsurprising, given abortions can be cost-prohibitive for many; in a study from 2011-2012, the median cost of a surgical abortion at 10 weeks was $495, jumping to $1,350 at 20 weeks (range $750-$5,000) excluding the cost of travel and lost wages. Yet the Federal Reserve Board found 40% of U.S. adults do not have enough in savings to pay for a $400 emergency expense, meaning many individuals may need to delay having an abortion until they can raise the necessary funds.

https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/fact-sheet/abortions-later-in-pregnancy/

toomuchbaloney · May 22, 2022

47 minutes ago, subee said:

Do you have any stats on how many late term abortions were done in Colorado for non medical reasons?

The data is published by the state.

https://docs.Google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1JbXiTDg5I6QrYMiIE3sOmbk4Q2vB_FVt/htmlview#

Tweety, BSN, RN · May 22, 2022

2 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

The data is published by the state.

https://docs.Google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1JbXiTDg5I6QrYMiIE3sOmbk4Q2vB_FVt/htmlview#

That appears to give the total number of abortions but doesn't answer Subee's question about how many were late term abortions for non-medical reasons.

toomuchbaloney · May 22, 2022

10 minutes ago, Tweety said:

Pro-life people would say even one is too many.

But no, I don't, I just know from reading they are one of the few states that have it and read an article of a woman that found out late in pregnancy her child would die at birth and she traveled there for a late-term abortion.

Nationally late term abortions are very rare which makes it interesting why it's become a front and center issue for some people.

This article states it's 1% of all abortions.

https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/fact-sheet/abortions-later-in-pregnancy/

I believe that it's front and center because right wing activists are making it front and center for targeted groups.

1 minute ago, Tweety said:

That appears to give the total number of abortions but doesn't answer Subee's question about how many were late term abortions for non-medical reasons.

Yeah it does, chose the other tabs in the database. Well not the Medical versus non-medical part...

Beerman, BSN · May 22, 2022

5 minutes ago, Tweety said:

That appears to give the total number of abortions but doesn't answer Subee's question about how many were late term abortions for non-medical reasons.

Here is an article about one MD who runs a clinic in which he sees only women who are 20 weeks and later. He had 13 on his schedule the week the author interviewed him.

https://denvergazette.com/news/local/colorado-late-term-abortion-doctor-im-not-going-anywhere/article_ed808cbe-cc9f-11ec-9158-efd60e4b0ccf.html

Beerman, BSN · May 22, 2022

17 minutes ago, Tweety said:

Pro-life people would say even one is too many.

But no, I don't, I just know from reading they are one of the few states that have it and read an article of a woman that found out late in pregnancy her child would die at birth and she traveled there for a late-term abortion.

Nationally late term abortions are very rare which makes it interesting why it's become a front and center issue for some people.

This article states it's 1% of all abortions.

https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/fact-sheet/abortions-later-in-pregnancy/

Interesting. Less than 1% of the population is killed by gun violence. Why the need for stricter gun laws?

toomuchbaloney · May 22, 2022

28 minutes ago, Beerman said:

Interesting. Less than 1% of the population is killed by gun violence. Why the need for stricter gun laws?

Abortion providers aren't randomly choosing pregnant women in public places to terminate their pregnancies...besides the vast majority of the "late term" abortions do not involve a viable fetus. Can you discern any other differences?

toomuchbaloney · May 22, 2022

49 minutes ago, Beerman said:

Here is an article about one MD who runs a clinic in which he sees only women who are 20 weeks and later. He had 13 on his schedule the week the author interviewed him.

https://denvergazette.com/news/local/colorado-late-term-abortion-doctor-im-not-going-anywhere/article_ed808cbe-cc9f-11ec-9158-efd60e4b0ccf.html

From the article:

Quote

Hern has seen many reasons for why women seek abortions later in pregnancy, including a missed diagnosis, a fetal anomaly or genetic disorder in a desired pregnancy, the fear that a relationship will collapse because of the impending birth, lack of money and/or transportation to get to an abortion clinic early, ignorance of signs and symptoms of pregnancy, especially in young women and fear, shame or guilt over the situation.

Hern is aware of the dangers of being an outspoken abortion-rights advocate and one of a handful of doctors who perform abortions late in pregnancy. He’s been shot at so many times, the clinic windows have a four-layer protection of bullet-proof glass, 24-hour surveillance and heavy-duty electronic steel gates.

Death threats are routine. “I’m on the hit list,” Hern said. “They’ve sent messages telling me, ‘Don’t bother wearing a bullet-proof vest. We’re gonna get a head shot.’”

The concern about late term abortions is manufactured, IMV.