What do you think about with current News and Opinions?

[guest1163268]

Something to understand what nurses think about re the Current News and their opinions!

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

25 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

 I'm not certain why so many republican politicians don't understand that they're supposed to be encouraging and promoting civic minded, altruistic and patriotic participation in the mitigation of this disease...not heralding individualism and personal rights to risk infection.  

I guess it depends on how you look at it.  

 Does the "altruistic and patriotic participation" include the right of a businesses and churches the right to keep their doors open if they choose?   Should they be allowed to make their own choices?  Some churches are online, some are not.  One vegan grocery store here requires an appointment or for you to order online.  Others just let people do what they want.  

Many would think the patriotic thing to do is to keep freedom of choice intact.

However, at the beginning of the pandemic it seemed we all were on the same page and rolled up our sleeves and did what we could.  Even Republican states like Florida went into lockdown and the criticism was that the governor was too slow to do so.   It seemed that when it lingered on and on that Americans, unlike say Australians or Europeans, decided to change in favor of freedoms.

There were some surveys to back this up.  What's interesting is that people disagreed with Trump's handling of the situation, but when looking at individual policies by themselves both parties agreed.  At the beginning of the pandemic that is.

 https://news.uchicago.edu/story/fight-against-covid-19-how-much-freedom-are-you-willing-give

At the end of the day, while I don't approve necessarily of Republicans and how they promoted freedom over covid restrictions, you can't expect the government to tell you what to do.  They heavily promoted the vaccine, even in Republican states.  Americans chose to not get vaccinated.  We have some personal responsibility.

But life goes on......

https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2022/01/16/tampa-bay-life-carries-on-amid-record-covid-19-infections/

And yes, the healthcare system is stressed.  I worked another overtime shift this week because so many people are out with covid.  I'm tired of working overtime.   There's a back log of patients waiting to be discharged to nursing homes, SNF's and rehab, but they can't because the nursing homes have no staff.  This fills up our floors and creates a situation where people are staying in the ER for 24 hours or more to get a bed on the floors.

My sister has covid right now.  I'm not insensitive to the disease aspect or the impact on our healthcare system.  

https://www.medscape.com/for-you?uac=94896SX&faf=1&sso=true&impID=3953883&src=WNL_recnlnew1_220117_MSCPEDIT_other_artid966608

[toomuchbaloney]

We do have individual responsibility to do the right and patriotic thing but that's not what Trump encouraged beginning at his administration's pandemic presser where the idea that we should all mask up in public was introduced.  At that very meeting the leader of the country told everyone that mask wearing was a matter of individual freedom and personal opinion rather than a matter of patriotism and civic duty during a national emergency.  Following that Trump began to criticize the scientists that dared to push against his opinions about covid and tried to limit their access to the public and press when they weren't standing next to him. We all watched this happen in real time.  Trump admitted to some of this to Woodward. 

We do have individual responsibility but a poorly educated population struggles to make educated choices. In my view, this democracy has grown complacent about public education as, apparently democracies are prone to do unless the population itself is deeply invested in the concept of public education.  It seems that in democratic countries, if 49% of the overall population have poor access to quality public education little new investment will occur as long as 51% of the population believe that they have good access to quality public education.  At best spending on public education in the USA has been relatively flat over decades.  That begins to have implications for the health of the democracy.  Because in a democracy 51% of the vote only need to be convinced of something...it doesn't even need to be true it just needs to be convincing. When people don't know something it's easier to convince them that something is what it's not. 

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

5 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

We do have individual responsibility to do the right and patriotic thing but that's not what Trump encouraged beginning at his administration's pandemic presser where the idea that we should all mask up in public was introduced.  At that very meeting the leader of the country told everyone that mask wearing was a matter of individual freedom and personal opinion rather than a matter of patriotism and civic duty during a national emergency.  Following that Trump began to criticize the scientists that dared to push against his opinions about covid and tried to limit their access to the public and press when they weren't standing next to him. We all watched this happen in real time.  Trump admitted to some of this to Woodward. 

We do have individual responsibility but a poorly educated population struggles to make educated choices. In my view, this democracy has grown complacent about public education as, apparently democracies are prone to do unless the population itself is deeply invested in the concept of public education.  It seems that in democratic countries, if 49% of the overall population have poor access to quality public education little new investment will occur as long as 51% of the population believe that they have good access to quality public education.  At best spending on public education in the USA has been relatively flat over decades.  That begins to have implications for the health of the democracy.  Because in a democracy 51% of the vote only need to be convinced of something...it doesn't even need to be true it just needs to be convincing. When people don't know something it's easier to convince them that something is what it's not. 

I can't say I disagree.  I've discussed several times that I feel we are in the age of the dumbing down of America.  I definitely think the Trump administration let us down in their approach, but as you can tell I'm on the fence about personal choice and responsibility.  I don't always think it's just about lack of education but something within us that doesn't like being told what to do by the government, but calling to them for help when we get in trouble.  

It's probably an example of our individualist culture.  Contrast to Japan that believes that the greater good of society is the highest morality.  They've long used masks to not infect others, so that's not an issue.  Of the G7 they have the highest vaccination rate without a mandate in sight.  Their covid restrictions are based on voluntary compliance mostly and aren't rigorously enforced due to cooperation.  Like everywhere else they've had their protests, and delta kicked their butt and they are having a surge right now, but with not even two million infections in a country of 125 million is impressive to me.   We're up to 66.5 million and I think that's partly due to the government, but also us.

About the dumbing down of America.  

Quote

Stupidity,” Jean Cocteau remarked, “is always amazing, no matter how used to it you become.” 

We live in a golden age of stupidity. It is everywhere. President Biden’s conduct of the withdrawal from Afghanistan will be remembered as a defining stupidity of our time—one of many. The refusal of tens of millions of people to be vaccinated against the novel coronavirus will be analyzed as a textbook case of stupidity en masse. Stupid is as stupid does, or, in the case of vaccination, as it doesn’t do. Stupidity and irresponsibility are evil twins.

The slow-motion zombies’ assault on the Capitol on Jan. 6 was a fittingly stupid finale to the Trump years, which offered dueling stupidities: Buy one, get one free. The political parties became locked in a four-year drama of hysteria and mutually demeaning abuse. Every buffoonery of the president and his people was answered by an idiocy from the other side, which in its own style was just as sinister and just as clownish.

Cable news provided the Greek chorus. American government and politics became cartoons. 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/idiocy-stupidity-afghanistan-covid-vaccine-maga-trump-civility-privacy-common-sense-11630271666

[toomuchbaloney]

I don't see the withdrawal from Afghanistan as one of the defining moments of stupidity. I don't think both sides are just as sinister and clownish as the other.  Only one side is lying about elections as a pathway to seizing power from voters.

[nursej22, MSN, RN]

Even though Gov. DeSantis touted Florida as having secure elections, he is proposing spending  nearly $6 million dollars on his own elections police: 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/01/18/florida-governor-proposes-special-police-agency-monitor-elections/

Quote

A plan by Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis would establish a special police force to oversee state elections — the first of its kind in the nation — and while his fellow Republicans have reacted tepidly, voting rights advocates fear that it will become law and be used to intimidate voters.

The proposed Office of Election Crimes and Security would be part of the Department of State, which answers to the governor. DeSantis is asking the GOP-controlled legislature to allocate nearly $6 million to hire 52 people to “investigate, detect, apprehend, and arrest anyone for an alleged violation” of election laws. They would be stationed at unspecified “field offices throughout the state” and act on tips from “government officials or any other person.”

Sounds like voter intimidation and brown shirts to me. 

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

16 hours ago, Tweety said:

I guess it depends on how you look at it.  

 Does the "altruistic and patriotic participation" include the right of a businesses and churches the right to keep their doors open if they choose?   Should they be allowed to make their own choices?  Some churches are online, some are not.  One vegan grocery store here requires an appointment or for you to order online.  Others just let people do what they want.  

Many would think the patriotic thing to do is to keep freedom of choice intact.

However, at the beginning of the pandemic it seemed we all were on the same page and rolled up our sleeves and did what we could.  Even Republican states like Florida went into lockdown and the criticism was that the governor was too slow to do so.   It seemed that when it lingered on and on that Americans, unlike say Australians or Europeans, decided to change in favor of freedoms.

There were some surveys to back this up.  What's interesting is that people disagreed with Trump's handling of the situation, but when looking at individual policies by themselves both parties agreed.  At the beginning of the pandemic that is.

 https://news.uchicago.edu/story/fight-against-covid-19-how-much-freedom-are-you-willing-give

At the end of the day, while I don't approve necessarily of Republicans and how they promoted freedom over covid restrictions, you can't expect the government to tell you what to do.  They heavily promoted the vaccine, even in Republican states.  Americans chose to not get vaccinated.  We have some personal responsibility.

But life goes on......

https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2022/01/16/tampa-bay-life-carries-on-amid-record-covid-19-infections/

And yes, the healthcare system is stressed.  I worked another overtime shift this week because so many people are out with covid.  I'm tired of working overtime.   There's a back log of patients waiting to be discharged to nursing homes, SNF's and rehab, but they can't because the nursing homes have no staff.  This fills up our floors and creates a situation where people are staying in the ER for 24 hours or more to get a bed on the floors.

My sister has covid right now.  I'm not insensitive to the disease aspect or the impact on our healthcare system.  

https://www.medscape.com/for-you?uac=94896SX&faf=1&sso=true&impID=3953883&src=WNL_recnlnew1_220117_MSCPEDIT_other_artid966608

Supporting full in-person attendance at churches is being insensitive to the "disease aspect or the impact on our healthcare system."  That especially applies to mega-churches.  Allowing people to go to crowded venues, bars and restaurants  during pandemic peaks is not sensitive.  NPR reported this morning that Neil Gorsuch refuses to wear a mask while sitting with the other justices.  He was asked by mask by John Roberts but refuses.  Sotomayor, who is a Type 1 diabetic, must listen to them in her chambers.  I  argue  HER  freedom  to debate face to face with colleagues is a greater infringement of liberty than that ahole's refusal to wear a mask.  HE is the one that should be sitting in his office.  People who wanted to go out eat, to the movies, etc. should have been allowed to do so as long as the business followed safety protocols.  Why should people who are trying to to the best practice be the ones to have to stay home?  Why should sick kids have to stay at home because the school board refuses to require masks?  The parents who refuse to mask their kids should be the ones to have to homeschool.  In a time of national emergency, people should have to EARN some of their freedom by choosing to do what they have to do to protect the health care system, whose survival is takes precedence over your right to go to a crowded bar.

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

7 minutes ago, nursej22 said:

Even though Gov. DeSantis touted Florida as having secure elections, he is proposing spending  nearly $6 million dollars on his own elections police: 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/01/18/florida-governor-proposes-special-police-agency-monitor-elections/

Sounds like voter intimidation and brown shirts to me. 

Oh, I bet DeSantis will have fun designing their uniforms! He is as empty-headed as Trump who would have loved to do up the space force in glittering gold.  If the taxpayers go along with this, my worst prejudices about Florida will be confirmed.

[toomuchbaloney]

Patriotism doesn't apply to churches.  Churches are religious institutions that do not pay taxes. If there are elements of patriotism seen within a congregation it's because some of the individual church members are patriotic.  Churches are about God and faith before government. The Bible warns against the idolatry that results when humans and human rules are elevated in a worshipful way. I believe that churches that have openly "patriotic" services (like on July 4th) are not fostering patriotism but instead a type of Christian nationalism. Businesses should follow public health guidance when their country of location is in a public health emergency.  

 

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

3 hours ago, subee said:

Supporting full in-person attendance at churches is being insensitive to the "disease aspect or the impact on our healthcare system."  That especially applies to mega-churches.  Allowing people to go to crowded venues, bars and restaurants  during pandemic peaks is not sensitive.  NPR reported this morning that Neil Gorsuch refuses to wear a mask while sitting with the other justices.  He was asked by mask by John Roberts but refuses.  Sotomayor, who is a Type 1 diabetic, must listen to them in her chambers.  I  argue  HER  freedom  to debate face to face with colleagues is a greater infringement of liberty than that ahole's refusal to wear a mask.  HE is the one that should be sitting in his office.  People who wanted to go out eat, to the movies, etc. should have been allowed to do so as long as the business followed safety protocols.  Why should people who are trying to to the best practice be the ones to have to stay home?  Why should sick kids have to stay at home because the school board refuses to require masks?  The parents who refuse to mask their kids should be the ones to have to homeschool.  In a time of national emergency, people should have to EARN some of their freedom by choosing to do what they have to do to protect the health care system, whose survival is takes precedence over your right to go to a crowded bar.

You ask these questions of a people that says "you're dead child from gun violence doesn't take away my rights".

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

4 hours ago, Tweety said:

You ask these questions of a people that says "you're dead child from gun violence doesn't take away my rights".

I will have to think about what you said since the gun argument is different but I can't articulate it now.  Some people actually need guns but no one needs a case of covid.  I have two simple minded neighbors who recentlyy discovered that the Ivermectin they were taking didn't provide them with protection from catching covid.  Neither had to be hospitalized but they were very weak and uncomfortable for two weeks.  Looking at how they see this experience, their take away is that vaccines don't work anyway so they still won't get vaccinated, but, instead are going for Vitamin C infusions.   They won't tell me the doctor's name so I doubt it is even a doctor.  My head hurts:)

 

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

I wasn't equating gun violence and covid and yes please let's not discuss guns.   I was equating the mindset of people that don't care if your kids die from a crazed killer, certainly aren't going to care if people die from covid because of their rights to take no protection from covid and run their business or church or be unvaccinated. 

One of my coworkers conspiracy believing unvaccinated husband caught covid and took Ivermectin don't you know he had a much more milder cases than his vaccinated, but not boostered, wife that didn't take it.  Even though many people are reporting mild cases of Omicron.  I don't know where he got it but my guess is he already had it on hand and saved it for just this moment. 

What baffles me is here is a man that doesn't trust the vaccine that has a proven track record, but trusts putting Ivermectin in his body that has had flawed studies and is inconclusive.  How do you talk logic with such people?

I think it had a placebo effect on him because he believed in it.  Also, I've known many people that just had the sniffles and mild cases of Omicron.  

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58170809

[Beerman, BSN]

On 1/17/2022 at 6:34 PM, Tweety said:

And yes, the healthcare system is stressed.  I worked another overtime shift this week because so many people are out with covid.  I'm tired of working overtime.   There's a back log of patients waiting to be discharged to nursing homes, SNF's and rehab, but they can't because the nursing homes have no staff.  This fills up our floors and creates a situation where people are staying in the ER for 24 hours or more to get a bed on the floors.

Are the staff out because they were seriously ill, or have minor or no symptoms but tested positive?

I was out over Christmas because I tested positive.  I had some sniffles and a cough, failed my employee screening so was tested.  I've worked sicker several times, especially the first year or so in the peds hospital.

As our Democrat governor has said, the emergency is over.  Everyone has had the chance to get vaccinated.  There are treatments.  No state mask mandates here.  Some counties have them, but businesses are ignoring them and/or they aren't being enforced.  I can't tell you how many times the last month I've seen a "mask required" sign on the door, stopped and put one on, and quickly see that many employees aren't even wearing them.

In my peds ER, parents of kids with minor symptoms are coming to get their laughing, smiley kids tested.  At my vaccine job in a east coast city, several non-sick appearing people a day stop to see if we have tests.  It seems we are causing a lot of problems by thinking everyone needs to get tested.  Omicron for a vast majority, especially the vaccinated, is a cold.  I still want people to get vaccinated, and we still need to pay attention for what might be ahead, but most of everything else going on right now is craziness.