What do you think about with current News and Opinions?

Cclm, LPN · Nov 13, 2021

7 hours ago, Tweety said:

What they don't like is they feel that the LGBT people are "forcing their lifestyle down our throats" and they'd rather the community be invisible. What the LBGT community is trying to do is come out of the closet and underground and be represented, that we are part of the human race, that we exist and demand equality.

What they are trying to do is force the Bible as the law of the land....that their Bible dictates that LGBT community can be discriminated against. Is demanding that we not be fired from a job based solely on sexual preference "shoving it down your throat" or is that just asking you do to the decent thing?

I was fired in the 80's for "not being manly enough" I.e. because I was gay. I remember when gay bars were raided simply because there were gay patrons there and they were harassed by the police.

Christian attitude gave rise to the acceptance of bullying of feminine boys that were different. Christian attitude lead to children being homeless, prostitutes and drug addicts (apparently the subject of that book). Why should teens and young adults be shielded from this reality. It's a way to break through and end the cycle of bigotry.

For some of us the way to ending such things is through representation. It's very important that the LBGT community not be erased from school libraries just because some Christians are uncomfortable with the idea of equality and lifestyles and gender identities that are different. It's not Mediaography when a boy kisses a boy.

End of rant.

I'm not sure of what these particular parents are all fussy about exactly. Their religious views probably have a great part in their upset.

For me personally, it's not the sexual orientation of the characters in the book, it's the explicit sexual act descriptions. I could be wrong but is says something like, "I sucked his dick and he sucked mine.....". I also believe one of the characters is an adult and the other a child or youth. Either way not for children IMO, or not appropriate for a school library.

I don't fully understand what you mean by "forcing religion down your or others throats ". Is that preaching or saying their opinion? How are they doing that?

Tweety, BSN, RN · Nov 13, 2021

40 minutes ago, Cclm said:

I don't fully understand what you mean by "forcing religion down your or others throats ". Is that preaching or saying their opinion? How are they doing that?

Trying to influence law makers into unfair practices is not "expressing an opinion".

If the book is that explicit then I can see the problem, but I haven't read the book. Young homeless prostitutes and their predators is something in the world that I think age appropriate people can handle if not written as erotica. I read The Godfather in high school which was pretty violent and other books with uncomfortable topics and glad I had that choice and wasn't traumatized or corrupted.

It not surprising drug abuse, mental health, anxiety and depression are at high levels when these kids hit the real world. Their parents overprotective them, don't let them fail, don't want them to learn.

toomuchbaloney · Nov 13, 2021

51 minutes ago, Cclm said:

When you said....

"Isn't that what not learning from historical lessons looks and sounds like?".

Were you not suggesting the historical lessons were nazi book burning"?

If not, I misinterpreted your comment and I apologize.

Do you know who Senator Joseph McCarthy was?

MunoRN, RN · Nov 13, 2021

3 hours ago, Cclm said:

I'm not sure of what these particular parents are all fussy about exactly. Their religious views probably have a great part in their upset.

For me personally, it's not the sexual orientation of the characters in the book, it's the explicit sexual act descriptions. I could be wrong but is says something like, "I sucked his dick and he sucked mine.....". I also believe one of the characters is an adult and the other a child or youth. Either way not for children IMO, or not appropriate for a school library.

I don't fully understand what you mean by "forcing religion down your or others throats ". Is that preaching or saying their opinion? How are they doing that?

The story didn't involve a child and an adult having oral sex, it's an adult remembering a sexual experience as an adolescent and that the other adolescent is now a real estate agent.

My wife is a teacher and for the last couple of years has been a "media specialist", which is what they now apparently call librarians. She points out that parent's objecting to a book for obscenity isn't new, but what's going on now in various places is different.

It's starting as seemingly appropriate objection of specific books for potentially inappropriate contents but in each of these stories there seems to be a parent / parents indicating this is only the beginning, that they want to prohibit anything they find objectionable, which they specify as being any content related to homosexuality, race, or inequality. The reason why this gets compared to Nazi book burning is that the criteria for which books should be banned is nearly identical.

I find it interesting that the stories often include comments from parents about to the effect of kids should read these books less and read the bible more. The bible is by far the most disturbingly obscene book I'm aware of. To have one story about someone being tricked into having sex with an immediate family member is pretty ****** up, but there are multiple such stories in the bible.

Cclm, LPN · Nov 13, 2021

2 hours ago, Tweety said:

Trying to influence law makers into unfair practices is not "expressing an opinion".

If the book is that explicit then I can see the problem, but I haven't read the book. Young homeless prostitutes and their predators is something in the world that I think age appropriate people can handle if not written as erotica. I read The Godfather in high school which was pretty violent and other books with uncomfortable topics and glad I had that choice and wasn't traumatized or corrupted.

It not surprising drug abuse, mental health, anxiety and depression are at high levels when these kids hit the real world. Their parents overprotective them, don't let them fail, don't want them to learn.

Here is a excerpt from one....

Than Words Can Tell, by Brigid Kemmerer-

”You suck. And that’s what I’m going to say when I find you and shove it in your mouth hole.”
“Gross. At least this guy didn’t include a dick pic.”
“I’m here to play. I just don’t want to play with some chick on the rag.”
“Stupid whiney b***hes”
“...they just suck. Now shut your mouth hole or I’ll keep my promise to shove something in there.”
“I can do this all day, baby. Tell me, do you charge for sucking?”

This is from "Lawn Boy

On page 19, she said was the following quote: “Not that it really matters, in fourth grade at a church youth group meeting out in the bushes, I touched Doug Goebbels d**k, and he touched mine. In fact, there was even some mouths involved.” On page 91, she read, “What if I told you I touched another guy’s d**k? What if I told you I sucked it? I was ten years old, but it’s true. I put Doug Goebbels’ d**k in my mouth. I was in fourth grade, it was no big deal. He sucked mine too. And you know what, it wasn’t terrible.”

She then read a quote from page 174: “He talked about all times at the church but never mentioned our memberes, or the fact that he never said ten words to me after our little foray in the bushes. Not a single reference to holding or tugging or sucking d**ks. All I could think about while he was chatting me up, was his little salamander between my fourth-grade fingers, rapidly engorging with blood.”

On page 230, she claimed it said, “Why won’t you admit we suck each other’s d**ks? We shared a HERSHEY’s Bar, then you showed me your d**k. The next thing I know it’s in my mouth. We suck each other’s d**ks and you’re pretending it didn’t happen.”

https://meaww.com/lawn-boy-texas-mom-says-son-found-book-about-4th-graders-sex-in-school-library-pedophile

Is that Mediaographic or acceptable for children under 18 or otherwise appropriate in a school library?

Cclm, LPN · Nov 13, 2021

57 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

The story didn't involve a child and an adult having oral sex, it's an adult remembering a sexual experience as an adolescent and that the other adolescent is now a real estate agent.

My wife is a teacher and for the last couple of years has been a "media specialist", which is what they now apparently call librarians. She points out that parent's objecting to a book for obscenity isn't new, but what's going on now in various places is different.

It's starting as seemingly appropriate objection of specific books for potentially inappropriate contents but in each of these stories there seems to be a parent / parents indicating this is only the beginning, that they want to prohibit anything they find objectionable, which they specify as being any content related to homosexuality, race, or inequality. The reason why this gets compared to Nazi book burning is that the criteria for which books should be banned is nearly identical.

I find it interesting that the stories often include comments from parents about to the effect of kids should read these books less and read the bible more. The bible is by far the most disturbingly obscene book I'm aware of. To have one story about someone being tricked into having sex with an immediate family member is pretty ****** up, but there are multiple such stories in the bible.

Yeah. Bible is ****** up. Do you have the same opinion for the Muslim religion in which can be just as critical or worse? Didn't Mohammed marry a 7 year old? I mean all religions have weird ideas and not exclusively the Bible.

If people want to be LGBTQ then be it, if people want to Bible thump then go ahead. If either side doesn't like it, don't read or talk about it.

As far as these parents saying they want to burn book, it's not even close to nazis.

Nazis also burned people. Nazis tried to eradicate an entire group of people. Burning books was part of it. These parents just don't want to have this available for their children to read.

I think the lock down caused parents to become aware of what exactly is going on in schools that they didn't know before.

Read excerpt I posted in reply to tweedy.

MunoRN, RN · Nov 13, 2021

44 minutes ago, Cclm said:

Yeah. Bible is ****** up. Do you have the same opinion for the Muslim religion in which can be just as critical or worse? Didn't Mohammed marry a 7 year old? I mean all religions have weird ideas and not exclusively the Bible.

If people want to be LGBTQ then be it, if people want to Bible thump then go ahead. If either side doesn't like it, don't read or talk about it.

As far as these parents saying they want to burn book, it's not even close to nazis.

Nazis also burned people. Nazis tried to eradicate an entire group of people. Burning books was part of it. These parents just don't want to have this available for their children to read.

I think the lock down caused parents to become aware of what exactly is going on in schools that they didn't know before.

Read excerpt I posted in reply to tweedy.

And again, if this is just limited to removing books from school libraries that are generally viewed as being too obscene then I don't have a problem with that, I don't think most people have a problem with that.

It's that the stated intent is increasingly to remove books that involve homosexuals, racial inequality, etc. Their concern is that their children might be exposed to things that would cause them to be less intolerant or less likely to hate themselves which is exactly the sort of things schools shouldn't support.

The Nazi's were fascists - they used oppressive and controlling measures to promote a narrow view of who people should be, that's a bad thing with or without genocide. I don't really get your view that aside from the genocide, the nazi's weren't really all that bad.

Cclm, LPN · Nov 13, 2021

30 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

And again, if this is just limited to removing books from school libraries that are generally viewed as being too obscene then I don't have a problem with that, I don't think most people have a problem with that.

It's that the stated intent is increasingly to remove books that involve homosexuals, racial inequality, etc. Their concern is that their children might be exposed to things that would cause them to be less intolerant or less likely to hate themselves which is exactly the sort of things schools shouldn't support.

The Nazi's were fascists - they used oppressive and controlling measures to promote a narrow view of who people should be, that's a bad thing with or without genocide. I don't really get your view that aside from the genocide, the nazi's weren't really all that bad.

I may be miss reading your comment. You think I think Nazi are not that bad except for the holocaust genocide? If so that's absolutely not true.

I take issue with people like these parents being likened to nazis. Even if they do burn these books they in no way measure up to nazis. Even if they both burned books. Not even close.

Where is that stated? " It's that the stated intent is increasingly to remove books that involve homosexuals, racial inequality, etc.".

I think the primary concern is the explicit sexual descriptions. There may be a few Bible thumpers that take issue with the homosexual reference but most parents have issue with the descriptions I haven't heard any info about other books containing this type of language so it's not conclusive that its because of homophobia. Did you read the excerpts? Do you think books like that are appropriate in school libraries?

As for books that teach that one group is superior one group is oppressed and/or one group is culpable for the acts of people in the same group, well yeah! Those books should not be available for children. They should be removed. Imo.

No one is saying remove books that contain information about racism of the past and present. Just the ones that do follow the ideas of CRT.

Aside from the crazies, I think parents want as say in what their children have access to. Not everything and anything they do not like gets removed. . Something to be discussed between the parents and the school board.

Beerman, BSN · Nov 14, 2021

Because climate deals and solar panels are more important than slave labor.

"Kerry and a faction of State Department officials oppose legislation meant to curtail Chinese imports made using slave labor, sources said, due to concerns that the restrictive measures will agitate Beijing. The legislation, known as the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act, in July passed the Senate by voice vote but is stalled in the House. It would target China's construction of solar panels and other equipment the United States needs to migrate the country to green energy sources."

https://freebeacon.com/biden-administration/kerry-lobbying-against-legislation-to-ban-import-of-chinese-goods-produced-by-slave-labor/

toomuchbaloney · Nov 14, 2021

14 minutes ago, Beerman said:

Because climate deals and solar panels are more important than slave labor.

"Kerry and a faction of State Department officials oppose legislation meant to curtail Chinese imports made using slave labor, sources said, due to concerns that the restrictive measures will agitate Beijing. The legislation, known as the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act, in July passed the Senate by voice vote but is stalled in the House. It would target China's construction of solar panels and other equipment the United States needs to migrate the country to green energy sources."

https://freebeacon.com/biden-administration/kerry-lobbying-against-legislation-to-ban-import-of-chinese-goods-produced-by-slave-labor/

Quote

Michael Sobolik, a fellow in Indo-Pacific studies at the American Foreign Policy Council, told the Free Beacon he sees evidence of an "ongoing turf war within the Biden administration over China policy—specifically, how will the president square his climate goals with his insistence that human rights is at the center of his foreign policy?"

China is forcing the Biden administration "to choose between those priorities," Sobolik said. "If the bill remains stuck, it's a safe bet that Biden's rhetoric about human rights in China is just that—rhetoric."

That is the opinion of the former aide to Senator Cruz and a member of a very conservative foreign policy group. Do you think it's surprising?

Tweety, BSN, RN · Nov 14, 2021

Quote

U.S. Sen. Marco Rubio this week called for John Kerry to be fired as President Joe Biden’s climate envoy for national security. That’s after accusing the former Secretary of State and presidential candidate of profiting off slavery in China.

Rubio, in an op-ED published by Fox News, said Kerry and his wife, Teresa Heinz, hold a $1 million financial stake in the Hillhouse China Value Fund. That investment fund is a top shareholder in YITU technology, a company involved in the “the surveillance, detention, and repression of Uyghurs and others,” according to Rubio’s office.

“In other words, Kerry appears to be profiting from slave labor,” Rubio wrote.

https://floridapolitics.com/archives/466608-marco-rubio-wants-john-kerry-fired-for-profiting-off-chinese-slave-labor/

I don't know enough about the issue above to comment much, but I do know in my lifetime American's economic gain has always trumped China's human rights abuses or we would have ended relations with them decades ago. 1.4 billion consumers with an every rising influence on the US and world economy is too irresistible. Their consumers are driving the world economy in a big way. It pushes up profits for the huge companies that own the government here, so it's not likely that suddenly we are going to care about human rights abuses.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Nov 14, 2021

4 hours ago, Cclm said:

Is that Mediaographic or acceptable for children under 18 or otherwise appropriate in a school library?

Unacceptable.

https://dailycitizen.focusonthefamily.com/governors-demand-investigations-into-Mediaography-in-school-libraries/

Perhaps some exposure and investigation into such things will be helpful. What is not helpful is bringing the Bible into the discussion.

I do think we underestimate readers, particularly high school readers. They can handle some profanity and sexual references. This is how they talk in real life anyway.

I'm lucky that my parents while understanding I'm not an adult, pretty much let me read whatever I wanted to in high school. I things on the best seller list rather than library books. ?

http://www.ilovelibraries.org/article/top-10-banned-and-challenged-books-2020