So I pretty much always have nursing students with me. I have senior BSN students who are doing a critical care class (six 12 hours shifts), ADN students from 2 different programs doing their preceptorships (eight 12 hour shifts), ABSN students doing clinical (six 12 hour shifts), and direct entry MSN students who shadow me for a shift. In addition I come into contact with a variety of other students who are being taught by my RN co-workers. My hospital also has a "student nurse technician" program where they hire nursing students to do CNA type work. So I regularly talk to 5-10 nursing students a week and nearly always have a student with me each shift.
What I am so shocked about is the level of education of these students who are in nursing school. I can't even remember the last time I had a ADN student who didn't already have a bachelors degree with me. Of course the MSN and ABSN students already have bachelors degrees, but what is surprising to me is that so many are already professionals in others areas. I had a student who already has a bachelors and masters in architecture and worked for a well known local firm, I have had lawyers, police officers, scads of teachers, and a few engineers among others. Even a guy who is an MD in Russia.
Why do all of these people want to be nurses? Have any of you experienced this?
Back when I was in nursing school there were plenty of 2nd career types in my class but they tended to be factory workers, truck drivers, farmers, military vets who were moving up to become RNs. A few had bachelors degrees but not like now.
I actually find it frightening and a little sad. Frightening cause I suspect this is a symptom of a very bad economy and terrible job market. Sad cause I know so many of the will struggle to find work after making huge sacrifices to get through nursing school.
Some of them are SHOCKED when I tell them it's a tough job market out there for RNs and they will have to work hard and keep on their toes to find any job. Some simply refuse to believe me (nearly all the direct entry MSN students, ironic since they will struggle in our local market more than the others). Others already have this figured out and are already bitter about it.
It's true that an experienced RN will make more than a new grad NP. However, after a few years the NP will surpass the experienced RN in salary. Obviously the calculus will be different for each person's situation, but it may be worthwhile to take a pay cut for a couple years and recoup that later on. If not, why go back to school altogether?
Pay aside for a moment, do NPs generally have more job satisfaction and autonomy?
It's true that an experienced RN will make more than a new grad NP. However, after a few years the NP will surpass the experienced RN in salary. Obviously the calculus will be different for each person's situation, but it may be worthwhile to take a pay cut for a couple years and recoup that later on. If not, why go back to school altogether?
I don't know where you live, but where I am, new grad RNs make more than quasi-experienced NPs. NPs also tend to be salaried and RNs are not -- which, frankly, makes a huge difference in pay scale and why many NPs stay on PRN as RNs. You're also looking at recouping having to pay for a masters or, god forbid, a DNP while maybe making $15-20k more than your average hourly RN.
Personally, I failed Calculus I twice which is why I'm not in medical school. I dunno about your calculus.
*** Many NPs working as bedside staff nurses in my hospital. Most say they can't take the pay cut working as APNs would mean.
Depends on where you live.
Top pay for an RN (with certification) around here, working 36 hours a week (12-hour shifts), is about $68K (that is factoring maxing out every hospital incentive program, working overtime...which is NOT given more than it is, etc.).
Brand new, fresh out of school, NP's...about $85K and most work 4, 8-hour shifts a week.
Needless to say. You don't have any NP's working the bedside as staff nurses around here. I have seen ONE...and trust me...if you knew how she worked as a staff nurse, the thought of her working as an NP would scare you to death.
mclennan nailed it on the head, but I wish I could tell those people not to do it! There is no shortage and it's a rough life. After 4 years of crazy, I'm on the verge of getting the heck out. Good luck to all those people.
I have really enjoyed reading these comments and as an RN who graduated at the age of 48 with a second bachelor's degree, I can say getting my BSN and RN have been the best moves I have ever made in my working life! I left a decent-paying job but not much job-security in the Dallas-Fort Worth area and moved away to go to nursing school FT and lived off my savings (which wasn't a lot). My family thought I was nuts and several co-workers tried to talk me out of it, saying that nursing isn't what it used to be (but what is). I've always worked in hospitals or other healthcare facilities in various positions M-F, 8-5, which never really agreed with me. I always dreaded Mondays! I now work 7p-7a in a physical rehabilitation hospital and I love it. I like the staff I work with, the patients I care for, and the hours I work (FT is 36 hours/wk with 12 hour shifts) and the money is great, too. I've been working two years and I have paid off all student loans, credit card debt, and have assisted my son with getting through his 7th year of university. All my life, people have been suggesting to me that I should go to nursing school and I always resisted, because I didn't want the responsibility of saving lives. Ironically, I feel that in becoming an RN, I saved my own life. I now look forward to going to work most of the time :), instead of dreading another day of mundane lunchtime meetings, watching the clock, and just generally not being challenged emotionally, cognitively, and physically. Would I make the same decision to go to nursing school if I had it to do over again? Absolutely!! And I would have done it a few years sooner, too!
In reading the posts about the NP bubble bursting - I agree it's already happening. I've seen more than a few listings on Craigs no less of NP students desperate for a hook up for school. I also wrote a comment somewhere on this board about a system to the south of me wanting extensively experienced and independent RNs in the network private practice - not NPs anymore. Remember, no corporation wants to pay a higher salary. If they can they will have the MD, and then supp. with a lower salary if possible. This is what is going on IMHO in that network for one. Sure, an NP would be able to do a little more, but big systems only look at the bottom line. Gosh people, be careful about any additional edu.!
I read blogs. Many specialty groups are not taking in new MDs - this now for two years. You see, for MDs too. There is no MD shortage, really, it's all about money. The same that's happened to nursing is now moving into medicine. They are opening the door to make it easy to get your MD.... flood the market, and there you are. They are just a few years behind us tho.
Now for any of you thinking that Loyola Medical School is not full of it in doing this... give me your wallet.
Pay aside for a moment, do NPs generally have more job satisfaction and autonomy?
The role of an RN and that of an NP are very different. One is not better than the other but they are (often) worlds apart.
As far as satisfaction and autonomy, there is no research that I can think of off the top of my head. Anecdotally, I know more NPs that are happy with their job than RNs but that's hardly significant.
Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
In reading the posts about the NP bubble bursting - I agree it's already happening. I've seen more than a few listings on Craigs no less of NP students desperate for a hook up for school. I also wrote a comment somewhere on this board about a system to the south of me wanting extensively experienced and independent RNs in the network private practice - not NPs anymore. Remember, no corporation wants to pay a higher salary. If they can they will have the MD, and then supp. with a lower salary if possible. This is what is going on IMHO in that network for one. Sure, an NP would be able to do a little more, but big systems only look at the bottom line. Gosh people, be careful about any additional edu.!
I read blogs. Many specialty groups are not taking in new MDs - this now for two years. You see, for MDs too. There is no MD shortage, really, it's all about money. The same that's happened to nursing is now moving into medicine. They are opening the door to make it easy to get your MD.... flood the market, and there you are. They are just a few years behind us tho.
Now for any of you thinking that Loyola Medical School is not full of it in doing this... give me your wallet.
I was also a second degree BSN and had worked in my career about 8 years before deciding I needed a change. For me, I think people are pushed to "go to school, get an education!" I know I was. So I did...and my degree was practically worthless. I never used it. I actually ended up running a successful company before selling and moving on to nursing school.
I think getting a nursing degree is choosing a career. When I decided to go back to school I chose a career, not a degree. The first time around I chose a degree and I was not doing that again. With a general degree it's almost a guess on what you will do for a living but with a Nursing degree, obviously, you are going to be a nurse. There's no guessing in the BSN vs a general BS. Also, for second degree students nursing is an easy and less time consuming way to go. Most of us already have our pre-reqs completed and maybe only have to take a few for nursing school. My actual program was 15 months and I only had a few pre reqs to take prior to. It was a much easier route than going into PT, PA, etc. I start my first nursing job this week on my dream unit at my dream hospital! I've had three offers since April in huge hospitals and I could not be happier than I chose nursing. I feel it's job security, a consistent paycheck, retirement guaranteed, and most of all I feel so accomplished and proud to call myself a nurse.
While its being mentioned, can someone explain to me how a generic BSN (say Liberal arts) can end up with a MSN in nursing within two years? Or is that not how it works? I guess I don't understand how one can hold a stinking masters in nursing but did the first fours in something entirely different. When I think of someone with a MSN I think of my friends who were actually in school, in nursing programs, for 6 ish years and are highly experienced. But then I have seen talk on AN of what I mentioned before that you can get a masters in nursing in 2 years but have never set foot in a hospital. But I could be misunderstanding what this actually is.
In reading the posts about the NP bubble bursting - I agree it's already happening. I've seen more than a few listings on Craigs no less of NP students desperate for a hook up for school. I also wrote a comment somewhere on this board about a system to the south of me wanting extensively experienced and independent RNs in the network private practice - not NPs anymore. Remember, no corporation wants to pay a higher salary. If they can they will have the MD, and then supp. with a lower salary if possible. This is what is going on IMHO in that network for one. Sure, an NP would be able to do a little more, but big systems only look at the bottom line. Gosh people, be careful about any additional edu.!
I read blogs. Many specialty groups are not taking in new MDs - this now for two years. You see, for MDs too. There is no MD shortage, really, it's all about money. The same that's happened to nursing is now moving into medicine. They are opening the door to make it easy to get your MD.... flood the market, and there you are. They are just a few years behind us tho.
Now for any of you thinking that Loyola Medical School is not full of it in doing this... give me your wallet.
I would disagree with some of this and here is why.
Most MD's are going into a specialty, rather than general practice. There is a huge gap in primary care physicians...and who do you think is going to be called upon to fill that need? Mid-level providers.
The pay is less for an NP than an MD, so it's a win-win.
Second, the NP's that are having trouble getting jobs (these are ones that I personally know), are really stretching outside of their knowledge base. For example, I have a co-worker who worked as 8 years as a NICU RN...it's the only thing she has ever done, she got her FNP and guess what area she wants to work in? Internal Medicine...those are the only jobs that she has applied for.
She is complaining that she cannot find work...I hate to say it...I wouldn't hire her either if I had another alternative because outside of school, she has zero adult experience.
In contrast, I have another friend, L&D nurse, got her FNP, applied to OB-GYN offices..only three years of nursing experience and had three job offers to choose from.
I think part of it is your geographic area, but also if you have nursing experience that can carry over.
steelydan
24 Posts
Pay aside for a moment, do NPs generally have more job satisfaction and autonomy?