So I pretty much always have nursing students with me. I have senior BSN students who are doing a critical care class (six 12 hours shifts), ADN students from 2 different programs doing their preceptorships (eight 12 hour shifts), ABSN students doing clinical (six 12 hour shifts), and direct entry MSN students who shadow me for a shift. In addition I come into contact with a variety of other students who are being taught by my RN co-workers. My hospital also has a "student nurse technician" program where they hire nursing students to do CNA type work. So I regularly talk to 5-10 nursing students a week and nearly always have a student with me each shift.
What I am so shocked about is the level of education of these students who are in nursing school. I can't even remember the last time I had a ADN student who didn't already have a bachelors degree with me. Of course the MSN and ABSN students already have bachelors degrees, but what is surprising to me is that so many are already professionals in others areas. I had a student who already has a bachelors and masters in architecture and worked for a well known local firm, I have had lawyers, police officers, scads of teachers, and a few engineers among others. Even a guy who is an MD in Russia.
Why do all of these people want to be nurses? Have any of you experienced this?
Back when I was in nursing school there were plenty of 2nd career types in my class but they tended to be factory workers, truck drivers, farmers, military vets who were moving up to become RNs. A few had bachelors degrees but not like now.
I actually find it frightening and a little sad. Frightening cause I suspect this is a symptom of a very bad economy and terrible job market. Sad cause I know so many of the will struggle to find work after making huge sacrifices to get through nursing school.
Some of them are SHOCKED when I tell them it's a tough job market out there for RNs and they will have to work hard and keep on their toes to find any job. Some simply refuse to believe me (nearly all the direct entry MSN students, ironic since they will struggle in our local market more than the others). Others already have this figured out and are already bitter about it.
Well, it just goes to show there are way too many immaterial liberal arts degrees out there. Even a MBA is of dubious value unless backed with years of practical experience. I think higher education in this country should be more vocational in nature. Why peruse a degree that doesn't result in licensure in a specific career. Medical school, nursing school, law school all make more sense than a liberal arts degree or political science degree. Not saying there's no place for such degrees, just not so many of them.
I think it's fine to get a liberal arts degree if you truly have a passion for that discipline and you/your family can afford to pay for it. To go into debt to get a liberal arts degree with the expectation that it's going to lead to a stable, well-paying career is foolish.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
I'm surprised at the underlying lack of recognition in many of these posts that career-changing IN GENERAL is much more the rule than the exception over the course of working lifetimes these days. In my 40s -- at what is presumably the midpoint of the portion of my life I will spend working -- I know many more folks who have switched gears rather dramatically at some point -- than I do those who have remained in only one profession or career path.
The reasons are many. Relocation. Changing/evolving life & family priorities. Health/physical considerations. The ebb & flow of different technologies & industries. Simple boredom.
You're seeing career-changers in nursing ... because that's where you happen to be. :)
*** You misunderstood my OP. I am not the least suprised to see so many career changers in nursing. Nursing is my third career and during all my time as a nurses I have seen many many career changers. I don't even consider it the least but unusual. What I was commenting on is what is a new trend for me. That is highly educated professionals changing to nursing. In my experience people came to nursing from careers that did not require a lot of college education. Jobs like truck drivers, farmers, factory workers, loggers, waitres, bar tenders, strippers, military vets, EMTs, CNAs, etc.
What is new to me is having architects, teachers, engineers, morticians, accountants, etc becoming nurses.
Maybe it's not new, maybe its regional (I live in the upper midwest). I have been precepting students a long time and it's new to me.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
+ Minimal education required... I hear many nurses decry 'the hell that was nursing school' and that horrible NCLEX. Straight up nursing education is a cake-walk compared to engineering education. That's not a commentary on nurses and certainly not a value statement but just the observation of someone who has done them both. [/quote']
*** Thanks for saying that. It has long been my opinion as well. I thought nursing school was a breeze and sailed right through. Went from high school drop out with a GED to ADN RN in less than a year, then BSN in another year (free).
Welcome to nursing. i am thrilled people with your background are coming in.
When I finished my MN there were more MNs per capita working bedside in the city where we lived than anywhere else in the country. It was awesome working side by side with people like that and the quality of care was truly excellent. Many of us just liked the city so much we were happy working as independent contractors via agencies (there were two good ones and we got good money and all the time we needed off prn).
"Forced" sounds as if we hated it and it was drudgery that was beneath us; none of that was true. Just because one has a master's degree in nursing doesn't automatically mean your attitude is one of abhorrence for bedside care, especially if that's where the work is. See, a lot of these one-year-MN-wonders are going to be in bedside care anyway for a greater or lesser period of time. Many will discover their education makes it better, not lesser.
Eh, I think that if I paid the money, went through the training, and passed my boards to become a NP -- I'd want to work as a NP. You can do something that you'd rather *not* be doing with grace, class, and even enthusiasm.
I do think that many incoming RNs will start to become dissatisfied as the advanced practice market closes off. I graduated in 2011 from a traditional brick and mortar, university affiliated BSN school. Out of 120+ students in my class, over 90% raised their hands when asked if they wanted to go on to become NPs or CRNAs. Especially with incoming classes, you have new RNs with this mindset that they'll "do" a year or two in the trenches wiping butts and working nights, get the cred to get into NP or CRNA school, graduate, then find a posh 9-5 job in a rural clinic somewhere making 90k a year and doing nothing but writing scripts. I do think that people who go into nursing with this particular mindset will probably be upset when *that* market collapses and even the option of moving to BFE, Nowhere isn't a given because those are becoming competitive markets. *shrugs*
*** Thanks for saying that. It has long been my opinion as well. I thought nursing school was a breeze and sailed right through. Went from high school drop out with a GED to ADN RN in less than a year, then BSN in another year (free).
Welcome to nursing. i am thrilled people with your background are coming in.
I wish more people with his background were in the schools I teach in. Nursing school is not a breeze for my population, which is why I am finding this discussion so fascinating. Even the few that do have such backgrounds are not necessarily breezing through. I guess everyone is different.
I did have one student who was a high school science teacher. She was a pleasure to teach, and got one of the highest grades in my course. The majority of the students are the ones looking for a stable career in a relatively short period of time.
I didn't feel that I "breezed" through nursing school. I did maintain a high GPA but I had to work hard for it. I went through an accelerated program and there was a lot to learn in a short amount of time. It wasn't the complexity of the information but the sheer volume that made it difficult.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
I didn't feel that I "breezed" through nursing school. I did maintain a high GPA but I had to work hard for it. I went through an accelerated program and there was a lot to learn in a short amount of time. It wasn't the complexity of the information but the sheer volume that made it difficult.
*** Yes that is understandable. However I learned very little in nursing school that I hadn't already learned working as a medic in the army. The only really new things for me were the L&D parts and the patho of geriatric diseases like COPD, CHF, etc. However, and I hate to say this for fear of incuring the rath of women everywhere, even though it's true. As a former dairy farmer well educated in the gestation and birth process of cattle, L&D had little new except the fetal monitoring for me.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Agree, agree, agree, agree!!!!!!! I have to grin when I hear people say nursing is hard and the money isn't that great for what's required, because it's obvious they have never worked in social services. Of any career field requiring higher education, social services is probably the lowest of the low. The work is hard and the pay is awful. You still deal with short staffing and long hours, but you're making half of what a nurse makes.
*** I know. My wife is a social worker for the county. I once (very unwisely) pointed out that if I work an OT weekend 12 hour night shift I will make more in the one shift than she does in two 40+ hour weeks.
Even though she has a very responsible position, her job doesn't compair to mine as transport and RRT nurse for level of responsibiliety and accountabliety.
*** Many NPs working as bedside staff nurses in my hospital. Most say they can't take the pay cut working as APNs would mean.
Our (very small) unit has churned out several NPs over the last twelve months. Most found NP jobs but stay on PRN to supplement their income -- mandatory to pick up two hospital-wide shifts a month.
It's true that an experienced RN will make more than a new grad NP. However, after a few years the NP will surpass the experienced RN in salary. Obviously the calculus will be different for each person's situation, but it may be worthwhile to take a pay cut for a couple years and recoup that later on. If not, why go back to school altogether?
Specializes in Med-Surg/Neuro/Oncology floor nursing..
There ARE nursing jobs out there. They are just not where you would "like" to go to work as a new grad. When I was in nursing school (not all that long ago - but I don't know how it's been 2 years), there were several areas people "saw themselves" working. ICUs of all types, every kind of pediatric setting imaginable, some L&D/postpartum, ED, oncology, so on. Nobody really truly said that they wanted the options most commonly open to new grads. The picture we got during nursing school wasn't really reflective of the situation we were in as new grads. Our region had a significant shortage in the mid-2000s, which allowed the "recent graduating classes" from our school to find jobs much more easily than we did, in almost any specialty.
Reality was different for us. Our class had the most luck getting jobs if we were already employed at a hospital/hospital system, and if we applied for new grad residency programs. Some of us also got offers from units we did our preceptorships at. The reality was that finding jobs wasn't easy. We graduated as the recession was starting to hit healthcare in our area (and more broadly throughout the US).
I moved away for a job as a new grad. I stuck it out for the remainder of the year of practice that makes you an a nurse with experience instead of a new grad. I learned so much, and dealt with so much in my job. It was hard work, but I learned SO much. I didn't like living so far from my family (~7 hours) so I did apply for jobs much closer to my family. I had two amazing offers and chose the job I chose for many reasons. Because of the type of specialty I am in now, I have a contract for work commitment after I completed orientation. I can't complain as I love my job right now. There are days I don't particularly love but those days exist in all jobs.
Agreed 100 percent! I took a job close to a decade ago in a hole in the wall hospital in Brooklyn. Like this place was CONSTANTLY in the news because of negligence. I wasn't exactly happy to be working there for fear that any places I would apply to in the future would see the name of the hospital I was working at and not even give me a chance because of the hospitals reputation. But I had to keep in mind that it wasn't MY name in the press and I wasn't associated with any of the negative publicity(directly or indirectly). The point is though this hospital was willing to take me with no experience and the girls(and guy) I worked with were fantastic, gave me a chance and had incredible patience with me...I am indebted to this hospital for giving me a chance and teaching me SO MUCH about being a nurse(not just the mechanics but the emotional side of being a nurse as well)...and thus allowing me to have the great job that I love now.
You might seriously consider looking into forensic nursing. A real niche product but very, very satisfying to the people who do it. You have THE perfect background for it. FORENSICNURSE.ORG
As for forensic nursing..I was considering it, but working with victims of terrible crimes day in and day out I don't think I'd be able to handle it. Correctional nursing I would definitely be interested in, but the prisons are all upstate and much of a commute from where I am. Bellevue(in NYC) has a huge prison unit that I have seriously considered looking into if any openings come up.
And for anyone working in social services directly for the state/county I really applaud you guys. You are certainly overworked, underpaid and get the brunt of the blame when there is a bad outcome with a case. My sister is a social worker and got very lucky. Northwestern Memorial in Chicago hired her right on the spot as soon as she graduated with no job experience. She makes really good money too..but my sister became a social worker much for the same reasons I became a nurse or my brother became a FDNY firefighter...not for the cash..but for the job. Actually my brother and MANY of his brother firefighters have side jobs to supplement their income. If I wanted the big paycheck I would have stayed at my previous job(not to mention the benefits and perks of working for the government). But money isn't everything. Maybe I'd be singing a different tune if I had a family with three hungry mouths to feed..but I don't and it's something I honestly don't want either...if I had other people depending on me I don't know if I would have changed careers maybe not, not only for paycheck and benefits reasons but for the hours...weekends off and home no later than 4:30. Not to say that you can't support a family on a nurses salary..NOT saying that at all I know a great deal of you guys do it on this board EVERYDAY.
JeanettePNP, MSN, RN, NP
1 Article; 1,863 Posts
I think it's fine to get a liberal arts degree if you truly have a passion for that discipline and you/your family can afford to pay for it. To go into debt to get a liberal arts degree with the expectation that it's going to lead to a stable, well-paying career is foolish.