So I pretty much always have nursing students with me. I have senior BSN students who are doing a critical care class (six 12 hours shifts), ADN students from 2 different programs doing their preceptorships (eight 12 hour shifts), ABSN students doing clinical (six 12 hour shifts), and direct entry MSN students who shadow me for a shift. In addition I come into contact with a variety of other students who are being taught by my RN co-workers. My hospital also has a "student nurse technician" program where they hire nursing students to do CNA type work. So I regularly talk to 5-10 nursing students a week and nearly always have a student with me each shift.
What I am so shocked about is the level of education of these students who are in nursing school. I can't even remember the last time I had a ADN student who didn't already have a bachelors degree with me. Of course the MSN and ABSN students already have bachelors degrees, but what is surprising to me is that so many are already professionals in others areas. I had a student who already has a bachelors and masters in architecture and worked for a well known local firm, I have had lawyers, police officers, scads of teachers, and a few engineers among others. Even a guy who is an MD in Russia.
Why do all of these people want to be nurses? Have any of you experienced this?
Back when I was in nursing school there were plenty of 2nd career types in my class but they tended to be factory workers, truck drivers, farmers, military vets who were moving up to become RNs. A few had bachelors degrees but not like now.
I actually find it frightening and a little sad. Frightening cause I suspect this is a symptom of a very bad economy and terrible job market. Sad cause I know so many of the will struggle to find work after making huge sacrifices to get through nursing school.
Some of them are SHOCKED when I tell them it's a tough job market out there for RNs and they will have to work hard and keep on their toes to find any job. Some simply refuse to believe me (nearly all the direct entry MSN students, ironic since they will struggle in our local market more than the others). Others already have this figured out and are already bitter about it.
Just wanted to offer an alternate view to this job crises I've read about in this thread I'm in Austin, TX getting an alternate entry MSN and have been speaking to the students who are just finishing their foundation year and are now considered "graduate nurses" but that havent taken the NCLEX yet. 2/3s of the class are already working as GN-RNs at local hospitals under the supervision of RNs with the understanding that they will have passed their NCLEX sometime in the next 6 weeks. I don't know how typical this is across the country, but where I'm living at least, I feel pretty hopeful about my chances at getting a job shortly after finishing my foundation courses next June.[/quote']
That's good news for you in your area.
I would venture to say it is fairly atypical. In many states you are no longer able to practice as a GN, let alone a much tighter job market.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Depends on where you live.
Top pay for an RN (with certification) around here, working 36 hours a week (12-hour shifts), is about $68K (that is factoring maxing out every hospital incentive program, working overtime...which is NOT given more than it is, etc.).
Brand new, fresh out of school, NP's...about $85K and most work 4, 8-hour shifts a week.
Needless to say. You don't have any NP's working the bedside as staff nurses around here. I have seen ONE...and trust me...if you knew how she worked as a staff nurse, the thought of her working as an NP would scare you to death.
*** Of course it depends on where you live. I live in the highest pay vs cost of living area of the USA (that I could find after years of looking). In my area the nurse you talked about making $68K would be making around $110-$140K NOT counting over time. NP start out around the same $85-90K. Only a few specialty NPs will ever make more than staff RNs doing bedside nursing.
Why do it? The usual reasons I hear is to get a better schedule, not have to work nights and weekends and get away from the hard physical work of bedside nursing. The other reason to do it is it's free for us. Our hospital pays for BSNs and advanced degree and it's easy to get the money. All you have to do is get a "C" average and pay them back with one for one plus one. I.E. if the pay for 2 years of school you work for them for 3 years. I was even able to do quite a bit of my BSN "work" on paid time.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Pay aside for a moment, do NPs generally have more job satisfaction and autonomy?
*** The jobs are very different. I don't know of any hard numbers but can tell you my friends who are NPs like their jobs.
As for autonomy I would say that in general NOPs have more but there are exceptions. For example as a full time rapid response job it seems like I have a lot more autonomy than my NP friends who work practice groups with physicians. That may just me my perception.
*** Of course it depends on where you live. I live in the highest pay vs cost of living area of the USA (that I could find after years of looking). In my area the nurse you talked about making $68K would be making around $110-$140K NOT counting over time. NP start out around the same $85-90K. Only a few specialty NPs will ever make more than staff RNs doing bedside nursing.
Why do it? The usual reasons I hear is to get a better schedule, not have to work nights and weekends and get away from the hard physical work of bedside nursing. The other reason to do it is it's free for us. Our hospital pays for BSNs and advanced degree and it's easy to get the money. All you have to do is get a "C" average and pay them back with one for one plus one. I.E. if the pay for 2 years of school you work for them for 3 years. I was even able to do quite a bit of my BSN "work" on paid time.
One of the major reasons I hear from colleagues is that they were willing to put in the time and effort as well as a pay cut to become NPs because they wanted to transition into the person "writing the orders" rather than following them.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
It's true that an experienced RN will make more than a new grad NP. However, after a few years the NP will surpass the experienced RN in salary. Obviously the calculus will be different for each person's situation, but it may be worthwhile to take a pay cut for a couple years and recoup that later on. If not, why go back to school altogether?
*** I am sure that is true in general but not here. Only a few NPs in specialty practice can hope to make the $110-$130 staff RNs make (even a few very senior nurses making $140K).
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
I can tell you how I plan on doing it. I have a BA in Communications and will be starting an ADN program in the fall. Once I have my RN license, I plan on entering an MSN program at the University of South Florida. They have an option for people that have Bachelor's degrees in other disciplines than nursing - you take 15 hours of transitional bridge courses (the kinds of information you would have learned in a BSN program) and then you can enter the MSN program.
Now, the MSN portion might take longer than 2 years depending on your focus. I want to go into Nursing Education which is a 37 credit hour program. Other programs (like Family Nurse Practitioner or Nurse Anesthesia) are significantly longer.
*** 37 credits for the MSN portion plus 15 credits for bridge courses is 52 credits to get your MSN. You could do it in fewer credits if you DIDN"T have that BA in communications. For example the University of Arizona's RN to MSN program is 44 credits for nurses who have ADNs and NO bachelors degree. American Sentinel University's RN to MSN in education is also about 46 credits if I remember right. No bachelors degree in anything required.
You may have other and good reasons for choosing University of South Florida but just wanted you to know what's out there.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
One of the major reasons I hear from colleagues is that they were willing to put in the time and effort as well as a pay cut to become NPs because they wanted to transition into the person "writing the orders" rather than following them.
*** Yes I could imagine many going to NP school for that reason. If I were to ever have to go back to being an ICU staff nurse I would probably consider NP for the same reason. The more I do the kind of nursing I do now the less I want to go back to staff nursing, even though I am a staff nurse but I don't have my own patients as a rule. Sorry not saying this very well.
I could easily see myself as a solo practice NP in a small rural ER. We have a number of them working alone in rural hospital ERs at night and the ones I deal with really know their stuff and I would trust them with the care of my family in an emergency any time. Quite a few of them do a better job with the traumas and bad cases than the ERs who have a family practice physician covering the ER at night. Sometimes we roll up to pick up a patient and it's a hot mess when we get there. "THANK GOD THE FLIGHT NURSES ARE HERE!" (I have heard this even though we roll up on an ambulance). Of course most of the docs do a fine job and the ones who only do ER are usually great.
When arriving at an ER staffed by a solo NP I expect to find things well in hand and the patient as ready fro transport as they can be made at that level of care and they usually are.
Ricksy, your comment rubs me the wrong way. I am in my mid 20s and nursing is my first degree. I switched my major 3 times and the third was nursing. I had thoughts of nursing before the third switch but my mom talked me out of it as she is nurse and did not think I would like it. I kept coming back to nursing and got my degree in it. I work small jobs until I get a nursing job and volunteer my behind off for causes I absolutely believe in.
To say having a previous career and being older makes you better is ridiculous. My mom teaches nursing now and she said the most hateful students (think know it all wise) are the older second career students because they think they know everything from having a previous career.
I might have sunshine and butterflies flying out my behind and big dreams, but I am also realistic and smart...and many of my younger peers are the same.
Specializes in Orthopedic, LTC, STR, Med-Surg, Tele.
I have patients who tell me that their daughter, son, granddaughter, grandson, etc. is going to nursing school because of the nursing shortage. It makes me cringe.
To say having a previous career and being older makes you better is ridiculous. My mom teaches nursing now and she said the most hateful students (think know it all wise) are the older second career students because they think they know everything from having a previous career.
Is it more ridiculous than citing your mom as your supporting evidence?
I mean that as a just a joke and not to make you feel bad. There are great older students and awful ones. There are great younger students and awful ones. The poster was referring to employment I believe, in which case, older people can bring incentives for hiring.
....and that is? A lot of times they already have a notion how thing should be done because that is how they did it at their previous job...new people to the workforce have very few notions on how to do things....they are mold able to their new job.
Plus, most things are electronic or will be. Young people grew up with computers, thus they might learn quicker.
PMFB-RN, RN
5,351 Posts
*** I used to think like that too. Now I think of a nurse with an MSN as being very likely to need teaching in basic nursing skills.