So I pretty much always have nursing students with me. I have senior BSN students who are doing a critical care class (six 12 hours shifts), ADN students from 2 different programs doing their preceptorships (eight 12 hour shifts), ABSN students doing clinical (six 12 hour shifts), and direct entry MSN students who shadow me for a shift. In addition I come into contact with a variety of other students who are being taught by my RN co-workers. My hospital also has a "student nurse technician" program where they hire nursing students to do CNA type work. So I regularly talk to 5-10 nursing students a week and nearly always have a student with me each shift.
What I am so shocked about is the level of education of these students who are in nursing school. I can't even remember the last time I had a ADN student who didn't already have a bachelors degree with me. Of course the MSN and ABSN students already have bachelors degrees, but what is surprising to me is that so many are already professionals in others areas. I had a student who already has a bachelors and masters in architecture and worked for a well known local firm, I have had lawyers, police officers, scads of teachers, and a few engineers among others. Even a guy who is an MD in Russia.
Why do all of these people want to be nurses? Have any of you experienced this?
Back when I was in nursing school there were plenty of 2nd career types in my class but they tended to be factory workers, truck drivers, farmers, military vets who were moving up to become RNs. A few had bachelors degrees but not like now.
I actually find it frightening and a little sad. Frightening cause I suspect this is a symptom of a very bad economy and terrible job market. Sad cause I know so many of the will struggle to find work after making huge sacrifices to get through nursing school.
Some of them are SHOCKED when I tell them it's a tough job market out there for RNs and they will have to work hard and keep on their toes to find any job. Some simply refuse to believe me (nearly all the direct entry MSN students, ironic since they will struggle in our local market more than the others). Others already have this figured out and are already bitter about it.
Well, I personally know a lot of people who are older than me (not old but older) and they are like weeping said--pitch a fit with anything electronic. Both healthcare people and not.
My point with my comments are that the younger generation does not suck like ricksy inferred. I think it is sad that the older nurses think poor of the new grads/nurses. Some are clueless, but there are many younger nurses and new grads that are smart, eager to learn, open to change, and actually have many decent ideas to offer, etc. What is even sadder is the fact that it is probable that most of the older nurses that dislike the younger nurses were much like the younger nurses when they were that age.
Am I the only one scratching my head at the thought of the BS in "liberal arts" getting into a DE MSN, sitting for NCLEX then Nursing Ed in less than 5 years lets say....... Why would I as a student want to be taught to be a nurse by someone who has less than desirable years of nursing experience under their belt? Or an Institution hiring a MSN Nurse Ed with say 3 years of nursing experience? Aren't most nurses still getting the hang of it or figuring out specialty or job jumping in these crucial early years.....
I plan on getting my MSN eventually but I would think it would be just that. eventually... Whereas I could say " I have 10+ years of nursing experience therefore I demonstrate a MASTERY of my subject matter and therefore competent enough to teach and share the nursing wisdom down"
What happened to a masters degree really meaning that you spent your college years studying a subject that you know demonstrate a masters level of said subject......
Boy is education really going down the toilet :poop: correct me if I'm Wong or someone shed some light.
You will be happy to know that the ADN vs BSN vs MSN issues really only exsists here not in the workplace. You will work with wonderful nurses and not so great nurses and you won't be able to tell what degree they have by how good they are, or are not.
Umm, I can tell you that there are many, many places "in the workplace" where it does count a great deal. Your lack of experience and information is showing. No BSN? No public health, no school nursing, no teaching CNAs, no case management, no getting quite a few certifications which lead to better positions, no leadership positions in many institutions and facilities, no hiring in many institutions and facilities, and so forth... You bet it makes a difference, and more as you progress. (Anecdote is not the singular of data.)
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Umm, I can tell you that there are many, many places "in the workplace" where it does count a great deal. Your lack of experience and information is showing.
*** Umm, your lack of reading comprehension is showing. Try addressing the subject of the discussion, rather than just what you wish was the subject. Of course there are many work places where it counts. However whether or not a nurses degree "counts" is unrelated to what my comment was about.
No BSN? No public health, no school nursing, no teaching CNAs, no case management, no getting quite a few certifications which lead to better positions, no leadership positions in many institutions and facilities, no hiring in many institutions and facilities, and so forth... You bet it makes a difference, and more as you progress.
*** Yes that is all obvious and well known / understood. Also unrelated to the subject of my comment. I was responding to a concern that the "educational snobbery" so often seen here on AN would carry on into the work place. I was reassuring the person that in the work place nurses don't sit around being all snobbish about degrees like they do here on AN. I suppose there are exceptions. I am also confident that my experience in this matter is valid given the complete lack of research into how snobbish about "ADN/diploma vs BSN vs MSN" nurses are in the work place (the expressed concern I was responding to).
For you to twist my reply so as to make it sound as if I am unaware that there are certain job are closed to RNs without BSNs is condescending and less than honest.
I'm on the home stretch of nursing school...this is my 2nd career after 25+ years as a Network Engineer. I can say that for sure if you aren't happy with whatever you are doing (even if nursing) LIFE IS SHORT, get back to school and change it.
The economy is cyclic, just because there is a regional job shortage now doesn't mean becoming a nurse is a waste of time. I would rather have the license and work as a janitor in Walmart waiting for my turn than have nothing and continue being absolutely miserable setting up yet another computer network. I was more than happy to give up my $20 an hour job for this chance.
Yes, things are tough all over, but things ALWAYS work out. Don't spend your time worrying about tomorrow. Thank your deity of choice that you are here today and do what you gotta do to be happy.
Just my 2/100th of a dollar, your mileage may vary.
I am one of these students. I started out in the helping profession (group home, in-home PCA) and wanted a career where i could help people and went into social services. I was never driven for much of anything and didn't know how to navigate the college I went to, which was a very large state college, and ended up with a Bachelors degree which got me some good jobs but didn't let me advance when I wanted to.
I had traveled extensively at one point in my life and realized how much nurses are needed throughout the world and I got really excited about becoming a nurse. I came home, applied and got denied :) I found a career that I loved and kind of put that passion on the back burner until I got laid off and settled into a job I disliked but took d/t the poor job market.
I applied again to nursing school and got in. Now I am 34 and will be graduating in December with my ADN (only program that offered night school in my area so I could continue working). I think anyone who thinks they'll be guaranteed a job in ANY profession is lying to themselves. I know it won't be easy, but I also know that I've made the right choice for ME and that I now have a lifelong career because it can take me to all sorts of levels.
I don't think you should be so shocked that some of us weren't sure what we wanted to do when we were 18 years old just starting off in the real world. Some of us had to quash our passions to make it this far. Think of how (I can't think of the word, but full - enlightened- professional- knowledgable) the world of nursing is going to be with all of us bringing so much to the profession that maybe wasn't there before.
As a 2nd career person, I'm excited to start again
I'm 50 and 3 weeks away from graduating with my BSN after a 20+ year career in technical writing. I've no illusions about how tough the new grad job market is, nor how strenuous and exhausting the first couple of years as a nurse are going to be. I'm going to take a pay cut changing careers, but I wanted to spend my remaining working years doing something that had value and meaning to me, not just putting in the hours for pay. Being an RN is going to let me not just be part of the solution in a seriously dysfunctional health care system, but give me skills to contribute to society in areas that I care deeply about. There are other benefits. I wanted a profession that didn't require I live in a really big city which my current one does, and one that I could eventually go to part-time in, when I get old and less able to work (retirement is a chimera). Or, where I could eventually combine my two careers (think journal editor or writing in the life sciences) if my knees give out. I also wanted a job that gets me out from behind a desk. Side benefit is that the BSN + two years of clinical experience would let me move out of the U.S. and get a visa in any English-speaking developed country, despite my age, but that's another conversation.
What is the Deal Is with all of the highly educated professionals with degrees entering the field of nursing?? Maybe it has to do with several factors i.e. poor economy, always wanted to go into nursing and now have the time, money and drive to pursue a career that one has always held an interest, people feeling stuck in existing careers that they are dissatisfied with doing, being layed off or let go of a higher paying job and have to put bread and butter on their tables and have to find a job with considerable pay. Personally, in comparison to many jobs, nursing does pay better and does offer a variety of opportunities to do many different things (not just at the bedside). We all have personal reasons for pursuing a career in nursing... some because of the money, some because they want to help people, some because of the flexibility of work hours 3 twelve hour shifts verse a 40 hour work week and on and on.
Currently, I work as a nurse educator and have been teaching nursing assistants for the past 15 years. While it may not be my ultimate "dream job" and is part time, I feel it is a good fit for a 55 year old who physically and mentally, does not want to be at the bedside. Do I think I am better than my nursing collegues?? Absolutely not!! I am where I am because of personal choice. While I am capable of teaching nurses because I hold a Masters Degree, I have no interest in teaching nurses as I dont feel the drive or incentive to do so and get paid the same teaching nursing assistants (again one's own personal choice/decision).
Back in the day when I got my nursing degree, I chose to go into nursing because I was a single parent who had to make a living and I had always been interested in the sciences. While money was not the primary reason I entered nursing, it certainly was a motivator for pursuing my degree. Personally, I am not sure if I would have considered doing so if I was going to be paid minimum wage. I furthered my education in nursing because my employer offered employee reimbursement so I decided to go back to school getting my BSN than my Masters. Does my level of education make me a better nurse or do I think I am better than my collegues who have a lower level of education or happen to work at the bedside?? Absolutely not, heck I have worked with CNAs and LPNs throughout my career who should have gone on to nursing school and were totally capable of becoming RNs.
While I am in the midst of teaching summer classes for CNA, I do find it quite interesting that over half of the students coming in already hold extensive degrees. Many of the students are interested in various fields such as nursing, PA or NP school and some of them are planning on going to Medical school while some plan on getting their feet wet in health care and working as a CNA and/or some of them just need a job. My years of teaching have taught me a few things including the need to have an overall awareness of my own personal experiences and opinions (good or bad) related to nursing as its kinda like giving people advice...although they might want to hear it, they ultimately will make their own decisions and you cannot "teach" experience. I do tell my students that nursing is hard work that offers a decent wage and many job opportunities but...you have to like what you do as with any job, no matter how much the pay and perks, it makes it hard to go to every day if you absolutely hate it.
Currently, there is no nursing shortage in my neck of the woods and many of the hospitals are requiring experienced nurses to return to school for higher levels of education or they wont have a job or new grads will not be considered for hire unless they have at least a BSN. With the economy, employers have a large pool of candidates to select from and the power to make the call. As for me, I am hoping in the next 10 years to leave the profession of nursing to allow some of the younger, newer nurses to take my place and I am totally fine with that.
Agree -- the generalization that "older" nurses are techno-illiterate needs to stop, as it is not based in reality.
THIS!
Also, there is so MUCH more to nursing than technology.
How about empathy, active listening, critical thinking, problem solving, working under pressure, life and death decisions, etc? How about knowing how to react to pts in a crisis? The list goes on and on.....
I think both young and "old" (I'm a forty-something) nurses bring many diverse skills and talents to the profession.
To think that "older" nurses are techno illiterate is an erroneous over-generalization, at best.
What I find somewhat humorous about the techo-literacy comment and that 'young people have grown up with computers and thus may be (better with them)' is that many of the young 'uns have come of age with Apple, the computers specifically designed and built to help the techno-illiterati embrace personal computers.
The bottom line, irrespective of age, is that some people are techno-literate and others aren't; some are competent with math and others aren't; some make good ICU nurses, some don't; some thrive in the ED chaos while others drown in it.
Some of the best nurses I know are fairly new and quite young... some of them are also dinosaurs who trained with Flo and can still fold a nursing cap quicker than I can tie a necktie. Some nurses are lazy and not too bright, others are just the opposite.
Take each person as they come. They'll reveal themselves to you quickly enough, irrespective of their age or training.
I just came across this thread and I have to say that it is one of the most interesting and informative threads that I have ever read on this website. I am adding my "two cents worth" since I am one of those older, "over educated" students who has decided to become a Registered Nurse later in life. I received notification last week that I have been accepted to my local community college two-year Associate Degree in Nursing (ADN) program. I completed five science prerequisite courses (A&P 1 and 2, Chemistry 1 and 2, and Microbiology) at the same community college last year in preparation for applying to the nursing program. I will probably be the oldest student to have ever attended the program since I will be 60 years old when I begin classes in August and 61 years old when I graduate in May of 2015.
So why am I doing this? First, because I want to fulfill a personal objective that I was not able to complete many years ago. I was a student in a two-year ADN program thirty years ago and I had to drop out during the last semester because of a conflict I had with a nursing instructor which resulted in me being prevented from fulfilling the clinical requirements. I did not flunk out academically; I withdrew from the nursing program because I could not fulfill the nursing program clinical requirements. Second, because I have a strong and long-term interest in working as health care provider. I have been a volunteer Emergency Medical Technician (EMT) in five different volunteer fire departments, and I am a nationally-certified Intermediate EMT in my local volunteer fire and rescue department in northern Virginia. I am trained and can perform medical procedures on patients that new graduate registered nurses are not trained or authorized to perform. Third, because I would like to have a part-time or PRN/per-diem job in retirement that will provide me with some additional income to supplement my civil service and military pensions. I do not intend to earn more than $15,120 a year as a registered nurse because I will forfeit a portion of my civil service pension if I earn more than that amount. This means that I will probably not work more than 720 hours a year as a part-time or PRN/per-diem R.N. I know that it is difficult for a new graduate registered nurse with only an ADN to get a job in a hospital in northern Virginia and they usually have to work in a nursing home, long-term care, or other skilled nursing facility for at least one year in order to be considered for a nursing job at a hospital in northern Virginia. However I should have an advantage to getting a job in a hospital by the time that I graduate from nursing school because I will also be a nationally-registered Paramedic by then with years of experience running emergency medical service calls.
Here is my educational background. I have five college degrees. I have a Bachelor's degree in Foreign Service (1976), a Master's degree in Business Administration (1981), an Associate's degree in Criminal Justice Administration (1987), a Bachelor's degree in Management (1988), and a Master's degree in Public Administration (1990). I retired from the federal civil service in August 2008 with a total of thirty years of combined active military and civilian service. I had previously retired from the U.S. Air Force Reserve in June 2006 with thirty years of combined active duty and reserve military service. I then worked as a defense contractor employee from 2009 until I resigned my job this past February. I have therefore had three careers in the military, the federal civil service, and private industry.
So why didn't I apply to a second-degree Accelerated BSN program instead of an ADN program since I already have several college degrees? The answer is the numbers. The two-year ADN program tuition at the local community college will cost less than $10,000 for the four semesters. Since graduate registered nurses with ADNs usually start at $21.00 an hour in northern Virginia, I can earn and recoup the $10,000 (after taxes) after having worked not more than 720 hours in the first year after graduation. However, a second-degree accelerated BSN program costs between $40,000 to $60,000 in northern Virginia. While a graduate nurse with a BSN usually starts at $24.00 an hour in northern Virginia, I would have to work part-time or PRN/per diem for four to five years in order to earn and recoup the tuition costs after taxes. The bottom line is that I simply refuse to work that much in retirement in order to just recover the tuition costs for an accelerated second-degree BSN program.
So now you have another perspective on why there are so many older students with advanced college degrees attending nursing school today.
Specializes in OB/Women's Health, ER, Admin, Education.
In the last 5 years, I have encountered much of the same. In 2007-2008, I covered a sabbatical at a Chicago private university where my primary teaching and clinical assignments were with ABSN students. There were over a 100 in that program that spanned 15 months. The following 2 years, I taught full-time in an ADN program with ~300 students in the program. Greater than 50% of those students had degrees in other fields. Since leaving there in 2011, I have taught as adjunct faculty in a Master's Entry Nursing Program where a bachelors degree is an entry requirement. It's a sign of the times. It's the economy. It's nursing programs wisening to the market. Gone are the days where your incoming nursing class are mostly young women right out of high school. In the ADN program I taught for, about 20% of our students were men. Culturally and "chronologically" (age) diverse. I had few students under 25 in these programs. That presents a different challenge to an instructor dealing with true adult learners, some of who had not been in formal classes for years. I'm in my mid 40's, but have had several students my age and older. Nursing is seen as a stable career; one that pays very decently, we're still viewed as a noble profession, and we're a profession that offers people MANY options--work 3 days a week and be paid for full-time or work 5, or registry/agency if you already have bennies, etc. The market IS indeed tight; many of my ADN grads (previous bachelor's or not) landed gigs in nursing homes, clinics and dialysis as their first jobs until they got the "golden" BSN. Magnet hospitals are refusing to hire non-BSN's which I think is ludicrous for those nurses with other degrees. They're cutting their nose to spite their face. This comes from 23 years experience as a nurse, advanced practice nurse of 18, with significant clinical, administrative and educational background.
wish_me_luck, BSN, RN
1,110 Posts
Well, I personally know a lot of people who are older than me (not old but older) and they are like weeping said--pitch a fit with anything electronic. Both healthcare people and not.
My point with my comments are that the younger generation does not suck like ricksy inferred. I think it is sad that the older nurses think poor of the new grads/nurses. Some are clueless, but there are many younger nurses and new grads that are smart, eager to learn, open to change, and actually have many decent ideas to offer, etc. What is even sadder is the fact that it is probable that most of the older nurses that dislike the younger nurses were much like the younger nurses when they were that age.