Weeding out of nursing students

[Tweety]

Do nursing instructors deliberately try to weed out students, by doing things like testing on material they haven't gone over yet, deliberately making it hard, picking on students?

My opinion was the "weeding out of students" was a myth.

The weeding out process seems to occur naturally, and the reason so many people don't make it through the program that started out, is that it's a tough, demanding, time consuming program, and whose eyes are on graduating top notch nurses who can pass NCLEX.

I do know teacher eyeball students they don't think are good clinicians and many of these cry "the teacher doesn't like me, and is out to get me". Or eyeball students that need a kick in the butt, or need a confidence boost and they feel picked on as well.

I don't think insturctors play games and try to weed students out.

I know there are bad insturctors and bad schools.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

Ah well, people here can believe me or not, I don't care anymore. :rotfl:

Sweetness, people have offered their own life's observations and opinions. I've not read one post where they've said they don't believe you and your experiences.

I have seen posts that people don't generalize your experience on every nursing school and instructor there is.

However, if you do think that people don't believe you, not caring anymore is the best attitude to have. :rotfl:

[Faeriewand, ASN, RN]

I have heard that A&P are the make and break point too. Any idea as to why that is? What is it about A&P? :balloons:

I've just finished A&P 1 and it was the toughest class I have ever taken and I have over 90 units. The instructor said that he has had postgraduate students tell him it was the hardest class they have ever taken. Some students did so poorly that they dropped out. The instructor kept telling us we had to study 12 hours a day to make it in his course. Those who thought he was kidding got a wake up call at test time. (It was a summer course so much much shorter than regular semster length) My family celebrated with me when I passed that because I had to "abandon" them for 6 weeks! :chuckle

I do think that the pre-req's are a part of the weeding out process. When I took chemistry most of the students were pre-nursing and many were questioning wheather they would be able to be nurses. Many dropped out of that class too. Same with the biology course, many didn't make it. (it was a university level course, very hard but I'm so glad I took it and got it over with) Fall semester I will be taking Microbiology and A&P 2. I figure if I did A&P 1 in 6 weeks I could do them both in 18. I've often said to myself that if I can handle the pre-reqs then I will be able to handle nursing school. I did learn better study habits and to study EVERYTHING even if it seems ridiculous. It has been an eyeopener.

[SmilingBluEyes]

Sweetness, people have offered their own life's observations and opinions. I've not read one post where they've said they don't believe you and your experiences.

I have seen posts that people don't generalize your experience on every nursing school and instructor there is.

However, if you do think that people don't believe you, not caring anymore is the best attitude to have. :rotfl:

Yep it is! I am not upset at all. Really. Actually I am heartened to see that others' experiences are better.

And I am very happy and gratified to read the nursing professors' and instructor's points of view regarding their policies. These seem to be fine, fair-minded people. THESE are the people we need to teach our future nurses and leadership. It's giving me great hope to see they care so much, and are trying so hard to do the right things.

I am not at all unhappy, upset or angry! I don't care if anyone believes me or not---my experiences were mine, not theirs. They can take what they can use here and discard the rest. If my stories upset anyone, it's not meant to----but if they are useful, good. I hope so.

Actually, like I said, I see encouraging words from many here. Glad to know not all nursing schools are full of games and unfair treatment of the students. This to me, is setting a VERY GOOD example of how to behave as nursing professionals later on----being consistent, fair and setting high standards is rather critical IMO.

To all instructors and professors, HATS OFF TO YOU, you are touching our future in your works. Please, NEVER, EVER underestimate your influence in future careers, attitudes and ethics of nursing practice. You hold the key to our future in your hands. :)

[chadash]

Ah well, people here can believe me or not, I don't care anymore. :rotfl:

I absolutely believe you! I have not been in nursing school, but I have seen this behavoir in nursing over and over again.

The question is not whether it happens, but WHY...

If we knew that, maybe we could remedy it!

[SmilingBluEyes]

WHY? I wish I knew.

I think these are basically insecure, unhappy people who are under great stress; they seem to be professionals who are horribly underpaid and under-appreciated and are taking out their frustrations on others. It happens. They apparently are NOT in the majority. For that, we can all be grateful.

[HRLRN]

imo, the "weeding out process" is in part a natural process and one that is deliberately impossed by the instructor. i cannot disagree with anyone that believes in either side.

i know that nursing is not for everyone, and that the school wants to make sure that the "best" gets in so that there is an increased chance of nclex pass rate, looks better for the school etc.

the natural process occurs all the time when you see students (some who are forced by parents to take the nursing route when indeed they don't want to), and with others who think it is going to be a "joyful ride", the one's who are always late or missing class (and expect to pass), and the bunch who think they are so smart they need not study. pretty much with the intensity of the classes beginning at prenursing, these folks are pretty much wrapping a rope around their necks!

on the other hand, you might be greeted by an instructor who (in my personal experience) is either a seasoned nurse or even an md.....who flat out tell you the first day of class "to look around" cause pretty soon there will be about 20% of you left cause it's my goal to fail you.

the way i look at it is (ha!) i take you up on that challenge, but remeber not everyone is the same. others become fearful and slowly start to leave, while others stick to their guns and even they know they are failing stay and wish for the better. (this to me is weeding out process). the staff even refers to chem, a&p's and micro "the filter classes". (you'd be amazed at how many people have to attempt them more than once and you only get 2 chances) mind you i used to work there prior to becoming a student and know what the motto is all about. too many applicants very little spots. they want to keep claiming there is "no waiting list" (and there is not)......so in order to keep it that way the weeding out process kicks in, because when you are done with the natural weeding process, there are still plenty of outstanding and qualified candidates (but too little spots)......now you must do something to shorten the list even further

don't say things like "..a seasoned nurse or even an md". drs don't do nursing and they're not our bosses. nursing is its own profession. we work with drs (and nutritionists, pts, ots, etc.). sorry, just a personal pet peeve.

as for weeding out, my school puts us through a very rough first year of a & p. if you can't cut it there, you wash out. it isn't designed to wash people out but if you can't cut it, that's life (only a couple of people fail). the school works very hard to get you through the (tough) program. our nclex first time pass rate is in the high 90% range. the school's policy seems to be ivy league-like -- be very selective about who you take (applicant to acceptance ration this year is probably 1 out of 15), keep the student faculty ratio low and work students hard.

[MKANS]

Because it's no fun to be in power if you can't abuse it.

I've had to put up with so much BS in nursing school it's pathetic. One of our instructors forced the entire class to help a student with her senior project. This meant we actually had to skip clinical time in the hospital which, I'm sure, violated BON rules. Of course, the senior turned out to be his wife. Talk about nepotism.

Another class failed the final exam ... and I mean the entire class failed ... after the instructor told them certain material wouldn't be on the test that, in fact, was on the test. The teacher refused to correct the situation and the students had to go all the way up to the dean to try to remedy the situation. It's mid summer and the controversy still isn't resolved.

I've often thought of reporting all of this to the Board of Nursing, which would come down on the school in a heart beat. But then, you also risk shooting yourself in the foot if they suspend the program, especially if you want to graduate on time.

Once teachers have tenure, they can pretty much do anything they want. And, as a student, you don't have many remedies.

The incident you explained sounds so similar to some of the BS we experience in our program. It's good to hear gripes from other areas to let me know that our school isn't the only one!!!

Mary Katherine Ivey

[lvn2be]

From what I have seen at my school, I think they do in some ways, but not as maliciously as "weeding students out" sounds. I think the program is designed to get rid of the weak students in the beginning, and help the ones who made it through in the end. I don't think the teachers sit around and think about who they can get to drop out...but I do think that the program is designed to naturally get rid of the students that shouldn't be there...it prevents everyones time from being wasted. However, I do know of a few instances in my program where certain people were obviously not taking things seriously, getting bad grades, and the teachers focused in on them to get their act together or quit, and it made things harder on the student...but they should have had their act together in the first place. We are in 2 1/2 months and already down 6 students...

kris

[Momto3andNurse2B]

WHY? I wish I knew.

I think these are basically insecure, unhappy people who are under great stress; they seem to be professionals who are horribly underpaid and under-appreciated and are taking out their frustrations on others. It happens. They apparently are NOT in the majority. For that, we can all be grateful.

It happens in every profession...including the one I just left.

I'd feel sorry for them if they didn't tick me off so badly.

[teeituptom, BSN, RN]

Sweetness, people have offered their own life's observations and opinions. I've not read one post where they've said they don't believe you and your experiences.

I have seen posts that people don't generalize your experience on every nursing school and instructor there is.

However, if you do think that people don't believe you, not caring anymore is the best attitude to have. :rotfl:

I dont know

I dont care

As long as Im wearing

clean underwear

[NewStu]

Went to nursing school orientation today, and saw and heard the beginning of the weeding out process with my own two eyes and ears. Guess the best thing to do is just keep my head down, my mouth shut, and work my a** off! ---- Which was what was conveyed to us more times than I could count.

LET THE GAMES BEGIN!/B]

[Faeriewand, ASN, RN]

Sweetness, people have offered their own life's observations and opinions. I've not read one post where they've said they don't believe you and your experiences.

I have seen posts that people don't generalize your experience on every nursing school and instructor there is.

However, if you do think that people don't believe you, not caring anymore is the best attitude to have.

OMGosh you are too funny TWeety! What a great post and a great thread. So glad you started this. When I get to nursing school I will hit the ground running! (hopefully not the other way :chuckle )

I love the way you use "Sweetness" awwwww! so nice

FW