Weeding out of nursing students

traumahawk99 · Jul 21, 2005

the way nursing education is conducted definitely limits the numbers of people entering the field. as i've stated earlier, nursing education has been hijacked by a bunch of crazy control freak women (yes, i know that statement will bring a response, though in my opinion, it's true) who are hung up on being respected... and it's much to the detriment of actually turning out qualified people to work in health care. however, it's great for organizing impotent letter writing campaigns.

the ego driven desperation to make nursing an "independent profession" (which it will never be, let's face it) has been expressed by building this world of inane fluff (nic, noc, nanda, therapeutic touch, and so on) that is counterproductive to actually educating entry level folks.

i was educated as a medic in an atmosphere of positive encouragement. that in turn had me doing all sorts of extra work to understand cardiology, etc. the "one strike you're out mentality" would be miserable to the nth degree. we had people in my class who most certainly would have been arrested by the attitude police in nursing school. i'm one of them :).

how do i handle the rigid, anal nursing educator types, who are always ready to write letters (control, control, and more control)? i don't speak to them or give them eye contact. it's pointless. i'm here to do my job, then i'm leaving at the end of my shift :).

chadash · Jul 21, 2005

"nursing education has been hijacked by a bunch of crazy control freak women who are hung up on being respected... and it's much to the detriment of actually turning out qualified people to work in health care.""Quote

I don't know about nursing school, but I think I worked with a couple of those nurses. It's scary! Thought they just picked on nursing assistants. What is going to put back the sanity in healthcare?

anita2812 · Jul 21, 2005

I cant vent enough about this topic..I am in the RN program at a 2 yr college.I have been told that in the LVN program they are very friendly-the instructors want you to pass.Here is my experience-I grad. in Fall thank god....During med surg 2, I had this sinstructor who would make everyone cry-even the guys.He would berate you in front of patients he called me stupid in front of one-bc I was taking too long on a blood transfusion.That semester there was 45 of us.At the end only 18 of us has passed.That is ridiculous.We even talked to the dean of nursing.I guess they are so short staffed that they dont do anything of it.

Aquamarine · Jul 21, 2005

Hey now there is a thought.....Or are the ones graduating the crazed instructors favorites and that is the quality we are getting??? I wonder. There is a school here that entered 84 and graduated something like 27. They did not know that more than half were not nurse material? Or they wanted to get thier grant money to keep the program going until they really really decided? What the heck is going on? It is crazy. :uhoh3:

Have we unearthed the reason behind the nursing shortage? Is it those wascally instructors?

Aquamarine · Jul 21, 2005

The State education dept. should zone in on some of these facts/comments from students. These militant radical instructors need to be monitored.

I cant vent enough about this topic..I am in the RN program at a 2 yr college.I have been told that in the LVN program they are very friendly-the instructors want you to pass.Here is my experience-I grad. in Fall thank god....During med surg 2, I had this sinstructor who would make everyone cry-even the guys.He would berate you in front of patients he called me stupid in front of one-bc I was taking too long on a blood transfusion.That semester there was 45 of us.At the end only 18 of us has passed.That is ridiculous.We even talked to the dean of nursing.I guess they are so short staffed that they dont do anything of it.

Aquamarine · Jul 21, 2005

But if only a few show up for the review and you are one of them, that gives you an edge. I love when that happens. On line classes have rules just like any other...you don't do the work, you don't pass. It is simple. Our instructor changed the assignments on line when there was vacation. Who did not see it even then...too bad. I begged and she gave me a chance but acted like she was doing me a big fat favor.

Honestly, I would hope there is some "weeding out" going on! I'm starting nursing school in the fall, and have been taking my co-reqs early - to get them out of the way. A & P I and Developmental Psych in the spring and Microbiology this summer. I have to say I'm shocked at the behavior of my fellow students, especially in Microbiology. For example, the professor holds review sessions which only five people attend - out of a class of 18. She sent an e-mail asking for the best time to hold the review, and only five of us even responded to her! (It's an online class so we are required to check-in a few times a week.) She told us when the class began that she'd e-mail possible essay questions to us the weekend before the exams. Only a few of us even bothered to check our e-mail or prepare the essays. We are given review questions to use while we study for lab quizzes, and many people admit they don't do them. Of course, these are the same people who whine about how difficult the class and lab are!!
Now, I'm not supporting teachers who try to drive down the grades by "tricking" students, but I would hope that we are expected to be responsible adults!! We are going to have people's lives in our hands! If you can't bother to check your e-mail, prepare for an exam, or show up for class, on time & ready to work, then maybe you should pick a different career.....
Beth

traumahawk99 · Jul 21, 2005

Hey now there is a thought.....Or are the ones graduating the crazed instructors favorites and that is the quality we are getting??? I wonder. There is a school here that entered 84 and graduated something like 27. They did not know that more than half were not nurse material? Or they wanted to get thier grant money to keep the program going until they really really decided? What the heck is going on? It is crazy.

yes it is... and the ones they graduate aren't necessarily anything except the most compliant. fortunately, working in the real world is entirely different. a person who works hard and competently isn't berated to the nth degree for being late 2 minutes on occasion.

the real shame is that 57 people who attempted to get into the profession have been discouraged. i'm sure some of them were not technically able to grasp the material. there would have been some culls, but that should occur by a process of failing impartially administered exams.

if there is such a great failure rate and it is justified, then that only shows the incompetence of the the educators who admitted them to the program. either way, it's buffoonery.

blossom2 · Jul 21, 2005

Tweety, Yes Yes Yes!!! Instructors really do try to weed out nursing students. It is their job. Yes some love it because it is a power struggle, but for the most part it is to make a wonderful nurse. NO IM NOT AN INSTRUCTOR! I have just graduated from a community college in Iowa. It took me 3 years but I have since passed my boards but only because I was pushed hard. It was rough and I hated it. We were the only clinic group that had to do 12 hour rotations and I thought we were being treated bad for no good reason. But guess what--- Now that I am working in a hospital that is fast paced, I am so glad that I was forced to talk to Drs and give reports to the next shift nurses that looked at me like I was wasting their time and didnt know anything! I work at Allen Hospital in Iowa and I feel confident thanks to the instructors that made my life suck for 3 years! I would feel confident in taking care of my family thanks to being pushed almost over the edge. you can do it, just believe and stay 1 step ahead of the rest, blossom2 RN

Do nursing instructors deliberately try to weed out students, by doing things like testing on material they haven't gone over yet, deliberately making it hard, picking on students?
My opinion was the "weeding out of students" was a myth.
The weeding out process seems to occur naturally, and the reason so many people don't make it through the program that started out, is that it's a tough, demanding, time consuming program, and whose eyes are on graduating top notch nurses who can pass NCLEX.
I do know teacher eyeball students they don't think are good clinicians and many of these cry "the teacher doesn't like me, and is out to get me". Or eyeball students that need a kick in the butt, or need a confidence boost and they feel picked on as well.
I don't think insturctors play games and try to weed students out.
I know there are bad insturctors and bad schools.

91C_ARMYLPN · Jul 21, 2005

This is a very interesting post..... From my own personal experience, I have to agree on this "weeding process". My LPN school was in the Army. This was a 2 year course condensed into 1 year. We started out with a class of 60, and graduated with a class of 25. Stressful, demanding, and yes you had to invest time and effort. But, at the same token it was challenging as it was rewarding. Early on some of the harder courses claimed a couple of my fellow classmates. While others had made a decision that nursing school is not just a "piece of cake". I will admit, I have met some nursing instructors that were definitely on a power trip and you did not cross them, even if you had a 4.0 GPA. There were other nursing instructors who were very caring and sincere, in which they were truly devoted to their profession. I feel that learning and teaching, go hand in hand. Provide a learning environment that is positive, that inspires nursing students the desire to want to learn, not to be humiliated or embarassed, and of course meeting the required academic standards. Once I graduated from LPN school a year later, I became a nursing instuctor, at the same school that I had been an LPN student at.

So, I have been on both sides of the fence. In the 6 years that I was a nurse educator teaching critical care nursing, I failed one student. It was an extremely hard decision, but this young man did not meet the academic criteria to be an LPN. This was not a power trip, it was reality. I lost 3 nights of sleep wondering if I had made the right choice, and in the end, it was. I loved teaching and I enjoyed my students very much!!! One way or another, yes, the weeding situation does exist. But, for a reason....so, hopefully what is left are the nurses that want to be there and are able to meet the expectations. :)

Sincerely,

91C_ARMYLPN

TypicalFish · Jul 21, 2005

The one thing that my nursing school did that drove myself and someother students nuts was this: if some people (the number was up to the instructor) missed a question, instead of throwing it out-removing it from the test, and rescoring the test based on one fewer question-they would just "give" it to everyone-that means that if you missed it, you got an extra point, and if you got it right, you DID NOT get an extra point. They never checked to see what level of students were missing the questions-as in mostly the "D" and lower "C" students.

Most of the better students never missed these questions (myself included) It is so stupid-I knew of several people who consistently failed or almost failed tests who were "saved" by missing the "right" questions, while other students never got an extra point. on our last test before the final exam, they "gave" 16 points from 8 of these questions, I missed not a one of them, and the girl next to me who had struggled to get "C"s all year, ended up with an "A" on the test because she missed every one of those questions(plus others). They never followed who missed what-yet the students all knew that the same bunch over and over got extra points this way. In theory, I figured out, if I had missed the "right" questions, I'd have a 4.7 GPA. It just burns me because I know of one girl who missed graduating by 2 points, and only ever had one point given to her, and I can't help but think how many people who were worse students than her who passed via missing enough "freebie" questions.

chadash · Jul 22, 2005

The thing is, if you want to be a nurse, you should expect, yes, even WANT challenge. I am happiest when I have to reach, and I don't mind someone being hard on me. The thing that I don't get is when some one is demeaned, ridiculed or just plain targeted, whether it is on the job or in school. I think ultimately this creates an environment counter to teamwork and the patients are the ones who suffer. We want to help students and new nurses to strive for excellence, not learn to CYA to avoid attack...This is what I believe should be being taught in our schools: work together to give the pt your very best, no one upmanship...

SmilingBluEyes · Jul 22, 2005

The thing is, if you want to be a nurse, you should expect, yes, even WANT challenge. I am happiest when I have to reach, and I don't mind someone being hard on me. The thing that I don't get is when some one is demeaned, ridiculed or just plain targeted, whether it is on the job or in school. I think ultimately this creates an environment counter to teamwork and the patients are the ones who suffer. We want to help students and new nurses to strive for excellence, not learn to CYA to avoid attack...This is what I believe should be being taught in our schools: work together to give the pt your very best, no one upmanship...

who is debating this?

I still say, yes, we need and must "weed out" totally inappropriate nurse candidates.....but it needs to be fair and ethical,the way it is done.