Do nursing instructors deliberately try to weed out students, by doing things like testing on material they haven't gone over yet, deliberately making it hard, picking on students?
My opinion was the "weeding out of students" was a myth.
The weeding out process seems to occur naturally, and the reason so many people don't make it through the program that started out, is that it's a tough, demanding, time consuming program, and whose eyes are on graduating top notch nurses who can pass NCLEX.
I do know teacher eyeball students they don't think are good clinicians and many of these cry "the teacher doesn't like me, and is out to get me". Or eyeball students that need a kick in the butt, or need a confidence boost and they feel picked on as well.
I don't think insturctors play games and try to weed students out.
Back when I was in nursing school, My class started with 67 students and we graduated 13. My instructors weeded out a lot of people by various means. I must admit that the ones they weeded out didnt belong there. And in my opinion should not have been allowed into the program to begin with.
The Texas Legislature is considering legislation addressing wide spread reports of of students academic standing (failures,lowering of grades, & etc.) being unjustly affected because of irrelevant political and/or other considerations (political correctness).
"Political correctness", of course, can have it's origin from all known political, social, and religious bases. It is not the sole realm of liberal ideology but is, also, prevalent in conservative and religious educational realms.
The Yahoo message board addressing this action by the Texas legislature included many posters stating that this sort of academic "political correctness" was extremely prevalent and a very serious problem that should be addressed by appropriate legislation.
My personal experience is that both in nursing education and nursing employment this same type of problem exists and should, likewise, be addressed through appropriate legislation. :rotfl:
While there has to be a weeding-out process, my experience was that certain teachers with a sadistic streak tended to zero in on older, more confident students. My only explanation is that some people have a mean streak. I have noticed, however, reading nursing magazines that there is an expression about nurses "eating their young." There is a small contingent of nurses who are bitter about life, and like to prey on more inexperienced nurses just to vent. That's life. In my clinicals, I've noticed for every ten nurses I encounter, one of them has a rather large pole up her or his ass.
I totally agree! We are the customers and deserve to get a good education! I am not by any means talking about watering down the work, but I am talking about being an effective instructor. The bad thing is that once someone has tenure he or she can do anything and will keep a job, unless its something that is pretty heinous. On the other hand some instructors are paid so poorly, they really don't care. It's about finding that jewel that not only teaches well but maybe inspires us to really want to go further with that discipline. From personal experience my A &P I instructor was GREAT and I credit her for really sparking my interest in A & P. That class was so good that students were there every Saturday at 8:00 AM for 5 hours. No one dropped this class and the class even presented her with a gift at the end of the semester. No this class wasn't easy, but we learned! My A&P II class was a different story. It SUCKED. A third of the class dropped out by mid semester and we couldn't wait until the semester was over. If I had him before my A&P I instructor, I don't know if I would have continued.
Sometimes as students we feel as if we don't have a lot of recourse. I suggest that we fight back by stating our comments in public view. The website http://www.RateMyProfessor.com lets you post anonymously your opinions of your professors, good as well as bad. I use the site to post as well as review professors that I am considering taking.
I agree with you whole heartedly. And I will not recommend my school. We are there to learn, not to be ridiculed or made to feel bad because we don't know something. Some instructors do treat student like dirt. That is because there is someone knocking on the door to get in and that situation may change someday. I think respect on both sides is needed. Students are not all 18 yr. olds anymore but instructors treat the 50 yr olds like they have no life experience and I can treat you like a little kid. The kids may put up with it, the adults will take action...after they get out. What is wrong with people...give them a little power and they forget their are standards and morals. We may be the nurses taking care of them someday!! Think of that switch.
Nancy
Excuse me, but as students, we are the paying customer, our tuition fees pay the instructors' salaries. And while I do not believe the customer is always right (liars, cheats,& ****holes exist everywhere), instructors who treat their students in a demeaning, "I don't have to respect you, but you better respect me or you're outta here" attitude DO NOT deserve my respect.
In a small exit meeting, all 6 of my fellow students, aged 20 to 58 yrs, told the interviewing Levels 5 thru 8 instructor that while the Levels 1 thru 4 instructors were skilled clinicians & excellent lecturers, they treated us so poorly with such condescension & disrespect during clinicals at the hospitals, NONE of us will recommend the school on principle.
There is absolutely no need to treat students as if they were the dirt beneath the instructors' feet.
All of us smile & talk politely to the Levels 1 thru 4 instructors when we see them, & may even compliment them for what we feel they taught us well or to our advantage, BUT we have to protect the investment & sacrifice of time we've already made.
The Levels 5 thru 8 instructors treated us with respect & their attitude was totally we are here to teach you & help you succeed.
The Levels 1 thru 4 instructors were there to teach the fundamentals & weed out the less than capable or the personalities the instructors, made obvious by pointed behavior, they did not care for, period.
Specializes in Infection Preventionist/ Occ Health.
While I certainly do not agree with any instructor being abusive to his or her students, I do think that there should be very strict standards in nursing schools. If a student is not able to complete the coursework, he or she should not become a nurse. I truely believe that there are students who cannot cut it, and that's just the cold, hard truth.
There are many pre-nursings students at my college who cannot pass basic science classes. There are many reasons for this: they are not committed to their schoolwork, they don't have the necessary background classes, they are partying too much, etc. Thankfully, they never make it to the clinical portion of the program.
Our college offers tutoring in all science pre-requisite classes. We also have a Nursing Learning Resource Center. In addition, the university offers study sessions led by the teaching assistants in most courses. I do not have sympathy for the students who do not take advantage of these resources.
Part of the reason that instructors are so hard on students is to make them realize the seriousness of their mistakes. During my med tech training, I had one instructor who would come around the student lab and throw away our tubes if they were not labeled. We would have to start our work over and stay late. She also gave a hard time to any student who was not paying strict attention to what he or she was doing. We considered her to be a hard-ass at the time, but I appreciate her now that I am working in a hospital. There are PCT's and RN's who draw blood on the wrong patient and submit it to the lab. When we discover the error and inform them of it, some of them just blow it off. Never mind that a patient's care could be severely compromised because of their error. They might have benefited from having tougher instructors.
Nursing school is serious business, because a patient could die if you make a mistake. If a student is not fully committed and prepared to take on this level of responsibility, he or she should consider another career path.
Now, I drew the line when one (a different instructor, actually)---- slapped my wrist (YES, I SAID SLAPPED MY WRIST) when I made a wrong move starting an IV on an old, confused and combative man.
I was beyond humiliated. The patient's whole family saw this. When we were alone, I told her I was NOT a child and she did NOT have my permission to slap my wrist when I screwed up.......she was not happy w/me after that point. I had to watch my back yet again...... So did many others. I was not the only "target".
OH MY GOD! This has got to be the worst thing I have ever heard happening in a nursing school. That instructor assaulted you. -- I suspect that if you had hired legal counsel, you would have owned that school. -- My heart is sick for you - no one should ever be treated that way by anyone, not for any reason, not ever. It's just chilling!!
To be sure, nursing is serious business. But some of us lack the wisdom to confuse seriousness with humorlessness. Many of these people are nusing instructors.
While I certainly do not agree with any instructor being abusive to his or her students, I do think that there should be very strict standards in nursing schools. If a student is not able to complete the coursework, he or she should not become a nurse. I truely believe that there are students who cannot cut it, and that's just the cold, hard truth.
There are many pre-nursings students at my college who cannot pass basic science classes. There are many reasons for this: they are not committed to their schoolwork, they don't have the necessary background classes, they are partying too much, etc. Thankfully, they never make it to the clinical portion of the program.
Our college offers tutoring in all science pre-requisite classes. We also have a Nursing Learning Resource Center. In addition, the university offers study sessions led by the teaching assistants in most courses. I do not have sympathy for the students who do not take advantage of these resources.
Part of the reason that instructors are so hard on students is to make them realize the seriousness of their mistakes. During my med tech training, I had one instructor who would come around the student lab and throw away our tubes if they were not labeled. We would have to start our work over and stay late. She also gave a hard time to any student who was not paying strict attention to what he or she was doing. We considered her to be a hard-ass at the time, but I appreciate her now that I am working in a hospital. There are PCT's and RN's who draw blood on the wrong patient and submit it to the lab. When we discover the error and inform them of it, some of them just blow it off. Never mind that a patient's care could be severely compromised because of their error. They might have benefited from having tougher instructors.
Nursing school is serious business, because a patient could die if you make a mistake. If a student is not fully committed and prepared to take on this level of responsibility, he or she should consider another career path.
Honestly, I would hope there is some "weeding out" going on! I'm starting nursing school in the fall, and have been taking my co-reqs early - to get them out of the way. A & P I and Developmental Psych in the spring and Microbiology this summer. I have to say I'm shocked at the behavior of my fellow students, especially in Microbiology. For example, the professor holds review sessions which only five people attend - out of a class of 18. She sent an e-mail asking for the best time to hold the review, and only five of us even responded to her! (It's an online class so we are required to check-in a few times a week.) She told us when the class began that she'd e-mail possible essay questions to us the weekend before the exams. Only a few of us even bothered to check our e-mail or prepare the essays. We are given review questions to use while we study for lab quizzes, and many people admit they don't do them. Of course, these are the same people who whine about how difficult the class and lab are!!
Now, I'm not supporting teachers who try to drive down the grades by "tricking" students, but I would hope that we are expected to be responsible adults!! We are going to have people's lives in our hands! If you can't bother to check your e-mail, prepare for an exam, or show up for class, on time & ready to work, then maybe you should pick a different career.....
I definitely think that instructors will pick on certain types of students. Those who are over confident or cocky will usually get knocked down a notch or two, those who are too unassertive will be picked on until they learn to stand up for themselves or quit. An overconfident nurse will do things they don't know how to do and not ask for help, an underconfident nurse will not make decisions when under pressure, and neither is good.
I also noticed that some instructors really disliked anyone with experience in nursing in another area (LPN or nurse aide). I had one tell me it just gave me bad habits, where I think it hugely helped me in both patient care, communication and time management. I knew what to expect, where those fresh from highschool or from office jobs didn't have a clue.
A student would not be able to complete course work if her homework is not handed back within a reasonalbe amount of time to know what she is doing wrong. If a student has 7 days to hand in a care plan that she did on a pt. then an instructor shouldhave 7 days to hand one back to the student. Wouldn't you agreee that is fair? Why do students have to wait for feedback because an instructor is too involved with her job, her kids, her personal life to get the homework corrected. All teachers, part time as well as full time need to have hours for a student to contact them for extra help. Not by telephone only. A student should not be asked to spy on other students. They are not getting paid to do that, it is the instructors job.
I am for quality, but you are in nursing school to LEARN. You are not supposed to have the inborn knack to do things without instruction, and good instruction....isn't that what your dollars are going for? Instruction? And if you get good instruction with honest effort to teach and you cannot do it...then I agree you should either quit or do something else. Mistakes are acceptable if you are "learning" situation and a student....not acceptable if you have experience and the mistake is based on reckless RN or MD behavior. Not if it is something you have been taught and should have proficiency in. But we were discussing instructors and students, students cannot be expected to know what they have not been taught or something they watched one time. I think schools should have the directors go and see what the instructors are doing in the clinical settings. Go and ask a student to do something that should have been covered at that point in the semester. If the student has not been taught that skill....they she should look directly at the instructor! I have seen too much blamed wronly on the students.
My daughter died because of a physicians mistake so I am not in favor of sloppy work, or forgetfull doctors, nurses or anyone responsible for my care or my family care. Is it the first mistake ever made? no. Is it the last? no. Am I the only person in the world to suffer such an injustice? no. Are human beings perfect? no. Will I try to do things properly, learn what I can to be a good nurse, try to overcome what I haven't learned from my poor instructors by having a strong interest and learn on my own? Yes. Will I try to be my very best for my patients? yes. Is there a possibility in spite of my high standards and my desire to do my very best to make a mistake? yes.
....instructors don't have to be out and out abusive to be poor and not effective. I happened to see a lot of injustice and I was just lucky I wasn't a victim.
You can have A's in college in the RN curriculum and be the lousiest nurse, you can just pass and be the best. It is a combination. Everyone cannot have A's. I am just tired of instructors not being held to a standard. They also should have a schedule of things that need to be covered each week in clinical and it should be monitored.
I am going in to a clinical situation in my first job with nothing more than nursing home experience. I finally got instruction in the LAST semester on how to do a head to toe assessment. I think that is something I should have got in the first semester, and practiced in the following semesters! I had instructors that talked to the other nurses. One that was trying to help the nurses on the floor get the work done because they were short while students were waiting and waiting for some feedback on our patients. Things like that are common in some schools.
I am sorry to even know that situations like I experienced exist. I think instructors have to have a strong motivation to teach, not police students. I read a book called "learning outside the lines". It was awesome and moving and clearly shows that people can learn but we all do not learn the same way. The goal should be to produce good nurses, not to discriminate, humiliate or castrate anyone. The instructors need monitoring just like students and that is the cold hard truth.
Students are not all at the partying stage of thier lives, the average age is not 18 or even in the twenties anymore. They are committed for the most part or will be gone the very first semester. I am not talking about those students. You don't have to be unreasonalbly hard on students to make them realize what a mistake can result in. come on....don't you give any credit to nursing students. Or is it like the Marine Corps. Break them down so you can build them up your way? There has to be an element of compassion, that is what we are about...nurses. Learning can still take place. Your college sounds ideal, mine was not.
While I certainly do not agree with any instructor being abusive to his or her students, I do think that there should be very strict standards in nursing schools. If a student is not able to complete the coursework, he or she should not become a nurse. I truely believe that there are students who cannot cut it, and that's just the cold, hard truth.
There are many pre-nursings students at my college who cannot pass basic science classes. There are many reasons for this: they are not committed to their schoolwork, they don't have the necessary background classes, they are partying too much, etc. Thankfully, they never make it to the clinical portion of the program.
Our college offers tutoring in all science pre-requisite classes. We also have a Nursing Learning Resource Center. In addition, the university offers study sessions led by the teaching assistants in most courses. I do not have sympathy for the students who do not take advantage of these resources.
Part of the reason that instructors are so hard on students is to make them realize the seriousness of their mistakes. During my med tech training, I had one instructor who would come around the student lab and throw away our tubes if they were not labeled. We would have to start our work over and stay late. She also gave a hard time to any student who was not paying strict attention to what he or she was doing. We considered her to be a hard-ass at the time, but I appreciate her now that I am working in a hospital. There are PCT's and RN's who draw blood on the wrong patient and submit it to the lab. When we discover the error and inform them of it, some of them just blow it off. Never mind that a patient's care could be severely compromised because of their error. They might have benefited from having tougher instructors.
Nursing school is serious business, because a patient could die if you make a mistake. If a student is not fully committed and prepared to take on this level of responsibility, he or she should consider another career path.
During our first year of classes in the nursing program, it was made clear to us that some of us "weren't cut out to be nurses" and that they did have techniques to 'weed out' students. Their method was by observing, ERI testing & clinical performance. Basically the rule was, one strike in any area and you're out. It's not exactly fair, but definitely happens!
I barely made it through my first year, fought my way back into the program during the summer and absolutely soared the second year. Granted, in that time period we had a change of staff, change in cirriculum and lots of visits from the state board of nursing.
The best advice I can offer anyone feeling picked on, not up to par, or being the target of getting ousted from the program is this: KEEP YOUR HEAD HIGH, DO YOUR BEST, STUDY & PROVE TO YOUR INSTRUCTORS THAT YOU DESERVE TO AND WANT TO BE THE BEST STUDENT AND NURSE EVER!!! (I proved it by visiting the head of the program weekly and asking for feedback, emailing my instructors and asking for feedback and help constantly, and checking my overall grades weekly to make sure I was still at a great passing level - I also had a study partner for each test, and made sure I knew exactly what was expected of me and voiced my concerns if I did not agree.
teeituptom, BSN, RN
4,283 Posts
Back when I was in nursing school, My class started with 67 students and we graduated 13. My instructors weeded out a lot of people by various means. I must admit that the ones they weeded out didnt belong there. And in my opinion should not have been allowed into the program to begin with.