Do nursing instructors deliberately try to weed out students, by doing things like testing on material they haven't gone over yet, deliberately making it hard, picking on students?
My opinion was the "weeding out of students" was a myth.
The weeding out process seems to occur naturally, and the reason so many people don't make it through the program that started out, is that it's a tough, demanding, time consuming program, and whose eyes are on graduating top notch nurses who can pass NCLEX.
I do know teacher eyeball students they don't think are good clinicians and many of these cry "the teacher doesn't like me, and is out to get me". Or eyeball students that need a kick in the butt, or need a confidence boost and they feel picked on as well.
I don't think insturctors play games and try to weed students out.
Excuse me, but as students, we are the paying customer, our tuition fees pay the instructors' salaries. And while I do not believe the customer is always right (liars, cheats,& ****holes exist everywhere), instructors who treat their students in a demeaning, "I don't have to respect you, but you better respect me or you're outta here" attitude DO NOT deserve my respect.
In a small exit meeting, all 6 of my fellow students, aged 20 to 58 yrs, told the interviewing Levels 5 thru 8 instructor that while the Levels 1 thru 4 instructors were skilled clinicians & excellent lecturers, they treated us so poorly with such condescension & disrespect during clinicals at the hospitals, NONE of us will recommend the school on principle.
There is absolutely no need to treat students as if they were the dirt beneath the instructors' feet.
All of us smile & talk politely to the Levels 1 thru 4 instructors when we see them, & may even compliment them for what we feel they taught us well or to our advantage, BUT we have to protect the investment & sacrifice of time we've already made.
The Levels 5 thru 8 instructors treated us with respect & their attitude was totally we are here to teach you & help you succeed.
The Levels 1 thru 4 instructors were there to teach the fundamentals & weed out the less than capable or the personalities the instructors, made obvious by pointed behavior, they did not care for, period.
From my personal experience they do. Our class at the end of med-surg 1 was approximately 60 students, give or take a few. Well the comprehensive final comes around, let's just say it was extremely challenging. Rumor has it that it was constructed by the dean himself, not the instructor. Well that final cut our class in half when it was time to go into med-surg 2. Approximately 30 students passed the class, half of what we started with and jus about the size of a typical grauating class. Interesting.....
Could I just ask which chemistry course is so difficult? I'm applying to an accelerated nursing program next year. I am almost finished A%P with Athabasca University, a distance course and what I think is WONDERFUL is that you can go through the course at your own pace and get a good grade. I've heard that you can't take Pharacology online unless you are registered in the program, but they can't stop my from buying the textbook and studying it by myself before I even get into the program. So the question is, are talking about "General Chemistry" or "Biochemistry"? Please inform! I want to study! If you don't mind, could you tell me what the name, or better yet, the ISBN of the chem textbooks is?
I just applied to a community college to pursue nursing and I was somewhat discouraged because I thought since I already earned a BA I would breeze right into the nursing program but reality was checked when they warned me that I need to do extremely well in Physiology before I am considered. My counselor also stated that freshmen students, rather than transfers are preferred.
I know nursing is a tough but rewarding career, and I will diligently endure. It's great to have this web-site to relate and pick up some pointers.
Hi Liza,
I live in Queens too! If you want, PM me. I might have some suggestions!
I guess I'm pretty lucky at my school. Except for a few loony teachers, getting into the nursing program is pretty straight forward. 110 applied, 40 made it in, based off four major things - Whether or not you have your pre-reqs completed, TEAS score, GPA, and then how well you did in your interview. It's a point system, pretty much. The 40 with the highest points get in. Our school boasts a 95% pass rate, but I don't know much about the weeding out process in nursing school because I don't start until spring, I've just done all of my pre-reqs, and maintained a 4.0. I hope to at least maintain a B average in nursing school, but my focus will be on learning the material now, not just getting the best grade I can.
I just graduated from the nursing curriculum from a small community college in a rural area, which I am not from. It was the closest to a palce I was living at, then I moved and decided to commute.
I think to say that nursing instructors do and sometimes do not weed out students by making it hard, or being critical in a subjective area like clinical settings is too broad statement. There are a lot of instructors, some do this because they know a student will be a poor nurse even with mentoring, time, maturity. Lets face it we are dealing with females for the most part that have personalities and all kinds of standards themselves from good to bad. All instructors are not fair and upstanding individuals but there are some that would do anything to help a student learn and overcome any obstacles to learning.
I believe there are some instructors that are influenced by either personality flaws of thier own, pressure at home, pressure from the staff at the nursing department, etc. and therefore do just that....weed out students in an unjust and unfair manner.
We had a clinical instructor, that was an RN only that had personal problems at home, worked a job in addition to the clinical student instructor, having a personal relationship with the male nurse supervisor where we had clinic that was not a fair and just person. She took it upon herself to hand the care plans back very late to a student that had been doing them wrong. She handed them back so late the student did not have time to do the required amount of care plans correctly before the rotation was over. She did not hand care plans back late to her favorite students. The student that was handed back the unsatisfactory care plans was told with an 82% average not to come to lecture anymore, that she would not be allowed to attend. She did not come in, stayed home and cried for 3 weeks. Then she was told she could appeal her case before the board of instructors in the nursing dept. She prepared herself and used up all her courage and came in for that appeal. She was told if she did not have any "additional information" to what was discussed previously she could not appeal and to go home. She was a lovely lady and would have made a good RN in my opinion. She got all F's for the semester because she could not finish and wasnot allowed to come into the program......and can not get back into that program or any program as they all have waiting lists and a student with F's does not have a leg to stand on now.
This same instructor had other students spy on students she wanted to get rid of. She got rid of a student that wasn't "cool" like everyone else thought they were....and a student ran back and said the student coughed on a patient and did not cover her mouth. I never heard of anything so darn stupid. The student failed clinical, did not get her care plans back either! At least that student can be an LPN because she had made it that far...the other student I mentioned cannot.
When I was in her clinical group she used to tell all of us, "call me at home, you can get me anytime and I will always call you back". I called her three times for help as she had no office hours at the college or at the hospital. She never called me back then, she did call me a few times but not in an answer to my calls. One time I called her from my cell phone and she did not answer, another student I was with called her from her cell phone and she answered...obviously the instructor had called ID and had a notion not to answer my call...why? because she was setting me up.
I worked 24 hrs. on my first care plan, I was determined it would pass. I have a lot of knowlege in the health care setting and although nursing was a challenge I am not a babe out of the woods. I failed that care plan because although I signified that a cardiac lab was high and what that signified, I did not say "call the MD" to make him aware of the abnormal lab in my actions. I did 3 more care plans, I kept going to my folder to see if my care plans were turned back to me. She said she had to do the care plans for the ones that were leaving our group and going to a new clinical rotation...that was fine with me, but the time kept going on that I did not get back my care plans. I finally after 3 weeks and with two weeks left in the rotation got them back....they all failed. I took them to the clinical director, she said she would go over them with another instructor. They did and said two of them were passes. One of those 2 instructors went to talk to the instructor the next day at the hospital when I was there doing my clinical day. She then called me into a private room and had someone watch my patients. She said she would pass the 2 care plans and that I could take all the time in the world to do the required amount of care plans that were left but not to ever tell any of the other students. I did not take all the time in the world but did it that night and drove it to her the next day after I had gotten some sleep and was safe to drive out of town. I did not trust her one iota. I think I would have been her next victim. I know I am not a genius or anything, I am above average...but I was not a "failure" in any case. She just needed a victim. The stories at Capping and Pinning about the girl that coughed were exaggerated. An instructor who was not even there told me she coughed phlem all over the patients face! No one saw it but a student that I would not trust to report the truth. I made it thanks to the two instructors that had faith in me and went to bat for me. I was almost ruined by this instructor.
The unfairness has ruined a few lives at our school. One instructor that wanted to help the sudent that got kicked out was told if she did she would be looking for a new job. She quit later and is doing something much better in the nursing field now, I am happy for her. The director of the entire program retired early (was asked to), a new director is coming in. The program is now under the scrutiny of the NLN/State Education Dept. But what about the girls that did not make it?
So I think there are instructors that justly and unjustly make it difficult for students. They are human, humans do all sorts of things...right and wrong. I think the instructors should have to be scrutinized by the schools also, as in this situation the instructor is out of line. She refers to her own self as "The Care Plan Nazi"....an awful and unprofessional reference. She puts that in writing in her little "Welcome to my clinic and this is what I expect" paper she hands out.
Her affair with the nursing supervisor is know to everyone, she may think it is a secret but it is not. It is a small town. I am usually oblivious to things like that, I am not from that town, and it was clear to me. She even ended some of our clinicals early for "mandatory meetings" and I would sit in my car, eat my lunch and work on care plans to bring right back upstairs at the hospital and put in her file folder to save myslef a long trip back there to turn in an assignment. She was in the supervisors office flirting and laughing, not knowing I was six inches from the door.
I have a heart, I feel so baldly for the students that were treated unfalirly. If there was something I could do to help them I would but there isn't. One girl is seriously depressed and it was 7 months ago she got kicked out.It could happen to any of us. As long as there are instructors, bosses, people in power capable of thes kind of actions we are all potential victims.I must have an angel watching over me.
TE=Tweety]Do nursing instructors deliberately try to weed out students, by doing things like testing on material they haven't gone over yet, deliberately making it hard, picking on students?
My opinion was the "weeding out of students" was a myth.
The weeding out process seems to occur naturally, and the reason so many people don't make it through the program that started out, is that it's a tough, demanding, time consuming program, and whose eyes are on graduating top notch nurses who can pass NCLEX.
I do know teacher eyeball students they don't think are good clinicians and many of these cry "the teacher doesn't like me, and is out to get me". Or eyeball students that need a kick in the butt, or need a confidence boost and they feel picked on as well.
I don't think insturctors play games and try to weed students out.
Excuse me, but as students, we are the paying customer, our tuition fees pay the instructors' salaries. And while I do not believe the customer is always right (liars, cheats,& ****holes exist everywhere), instructors who treat their students in a demeaning, "I don't have to respect you, but you better respect me or you're outta here" attitude DO NOT deserve my respect.
In a small exit meeting, all 6 of my fellow students, aged 20 to 58 yrs, told the interviewing Levels 5 thru 8 instructor that while the Levels 1 thru 4 instructors were skilled clinicians & excellent lecturers, they treated us so poorly with such condescension & disrespect during clinicals at the hospitals, NONE of us will recommend the school on principle.
There is absolutely no need to treat students as if they were the dirt beneath the instructors' feet.
All of us smile & talk politely to the Levels 1 thru 4 instructors when we see them, & may even compliment them for what we feel they taught us well or to our advantage, BUT we have to protect the investment & sacrifice of time we've already made.
The Levels 5 thru 8 instructors treated us with respect & their attitude was totally we are here to teach you & help you succeed.
The Levels 1 thru 4 instructors were there to teach the fundamentals & weed out the less than capable or the personalities the instructors, made obvious by pointed behavior, they did not care for, period.
I totally agree! We are the customers and deserve to get a good education! I am not by any means talking about watering down the work, but I am talking about being an effective instructor. The bad thing is that once someone has tenure he or she can do anything and will keep a job, unless its something that is pretty heinous. On the other hand some instructors are paid so poorly, they really don't care. It's about finding that jewel that not only teaches well but maybe inspires us to really want to go further with that discipline. From personal experience my A &P I instructor was GREAT and I credit her for really sparking my interest in A & P. That class was so good that students were there every Saturday at 8:00 AM for 5 hours. No one dropped this class and the class even presented her with a gift at the end of the semester. No this class wasn't easy, but we learned! My A&P II class was a different story. It SUCKED. A third of the class dropped out by mid semester and we couldn't wait until the semester was over. If I had him before my A&P I instructor, I don't know if I would have continued.
Sometimes as students we feel as if we don't have a lot of recourse. I suggest that we fight back by stating our comments in public view. The website http://www.RateMyProfessor.com lets you post anonymously your opinions of your professors, good as well as bad. I use the site to post as well as review professors that I am considering taking.
That's what I think too. That the program is so difficult and expectations so high, (well duh, we have to learn to take people's lives in our hand) there are going to be students that can't make it.
My first clinical was a disaster, my instructor stuck to me like glue, and I was nervous beyond all get out and she gave me a "marginal" which is one step above unsatisfactory. I could have whined, "she's picking on me, she made me nervous, she's prejudiced against males, she's trying to weed me out...". But I rose to the challenge and chose to learn from her and her bad review of me.
Truth was I was marginal because I was the only one in the group who wasn't a CNA or an LPN, thus she stayed near me to help me as I was the only there who had never touched a patient, my nervousness was my problem, not hers, she was only doing her job in helping to mold a good nurse. From then on I got satisfactory clinical reviews and graduated with honors.
Nursing school was H-E- double hockey sticks if you know what I mean. I most definitely think that there are some professors that are there to make your life a living heck. They literally get off on it- I only had one that took this out on me but other students in my same school had some difficulty with other professors. My experience was that my instructor seemed very cool and on your side until evaluation time then she was like a cat pouncing on her prey. I am female and she was one that LOVED the male students and gave me (an overweight female) a hard time. She became very threatening toward the end of my semester in my second semester of my junior year and was threatening to fail me in my clinical- if you fail clinical, even though the passing does not help your letter grade, you cannot pass the class without the passing grade in clinical- she was very hateful and did this in front of one of my other instructors, whom she had brought in as a witness for her- anyway I told her point blank after she suggested that maybe I become a CNA (all this because I left a line blank in my paper work and the actual information was contained in the document but repeated on the second page) that if she is going to fail me- I wanted to know then and there and I was not going to waste my time studying for my exams :angryfire . She actually got a little nicer after the other professor left and I made that comment and some of the problem also came from a care plan that we did for a postpartum - she was arguing my nsg diagnoses when they came straight from the book. I pointed that out to her- all of this came about after the other professor left- she turned apologetic. Well as you can tell by this jumbled mess here I am still very emotional about all of this. The other professor, by the way, I feel thought that I was being done wrong, because she sent me an email that was somewhat apologetic and she offered her help.
All of this crap to say that, yes, I think there is some degree of "weeding out." Especially in my junior year of my BSN degree. Now my senior year was cake- it was wonderful! We did so much clinical and that is what nursing is really all about- taking care of people and being with patients. We still had tests and projects but we were in the hospital a whole bunch more. And now I am graduated and have passed my nclex and am awaiting my license so that I can get reciprocity to the state I am actually going to work. So just keep you goal in mind and work your way through it!!! It is so worth it in the end- all of the hard work will pay off !!! :)
I just graduated from the nursing curriculum from a small community college in a rural area, which I am not from. It was the closest to a palce I was living at, then I moved and decided to commute.
I think to say that nursing instructors do and sometimes do not weed out students by making it hard, or being critical in a subjective area like clinical settings is too broad statement. There are a lot of instructors, some do this because they know a student will be a poor nurse even with mentoring, time, maturity. Lets face it we are dealing with females for the most part that have personalities and all kinds of standards themselves from good to bad. All instructors are not fair and upstanding individuals but there are some that would do anything to help a student learn and overcome any obstacles to learning.
I believe there are some instructors that are influenced by either personality flaws of thier own, pressure at home, pressure from the staff at the nursing department, etc. and therefore do just that....weed out students in an unjust and unfair manner.
We had a clinical instructor, that was an RN only that had personal problems at home, worked a job in addition to the clinical student instructor, having a personal relationship with the male nurse supervisor where we had clinic that was not a fair and just person. She took it upon herself to hand the care plans back very late to a student that had been doing them wrong. She handed them back so late the student did not have time to do the required amount of care plans correctly before the rotation was over. She did not hand care plans back late to her favorite students. The student that was handed back the unsatisfactory care plans was told with an 82% average not to come to lecture anymore, that she would not be allowed to attend. She did not come in, stayed home and cried for 3 weeks. Then she was told she could appeal her case before the board of instructors in the nursing dept. She prepared herself and used up all her courage and came in for that appeal. She was told if she did not have any "additional information" to what was discussed previously she could not appeal and to go home. She was a lovely lady and would have made a good RN in my opinion. She got all F's for the semester because she could not finish and wasnot allowed to come into the program......and can not get back into that program or any program as they all have waiting lists and a student with F's does not have a leg to stand on now.
This same instructor had other students spy on students she wanted to get rid of. She got rid of a student that wasn't "cool" like everyone else thought they were....and a student ran back and said the student coughed on a patient and did not cover her mouth. I never heard of anything so darn stupid. The student failed clinical, did not get her care plans back either! At least that student can be an LPN because she had made it that far...the other student I mentioned cannot.
When I was in her clinical group she used to tell all of us, "call me at home, you can get me anytime and I will always call you back". I called her three times for help as she had no office hours at the college or at the hospital. She never called me back then, she did call me a few times but not in an answer to my calls. One time I called her from my cell phone and she did not answer, another student I was with called her from her cell phone and she answered...obviously the instructor had called ID and had a notion not to answer my call...why? because she was setting me up.
I worked 24 hrs. on my first care plan, I was determined it would pass. I have a lot of knowlege in the health care setting and although nursing was a challenge I am not a babe out of the woods. I failed that care plan because although I signified that a cardiac lab was high and what that signified, I did not say "call the MD" to make him aware of the abnormal lab in my actions. I did 3 more care plans, I kept going to my folder to see if my care plans were turned back to me. She said she had to do the care plans for the ones that were leaving our group and going to a new clinical rotation...that was fine with me, but the time kept going on that I did not get back my care plans. I finally after 3 weeks and with two weeks left in the rotation got them back....they all failed. I took them to the clinical director, she said she would go over them with another instructor. They did and said two of them were passes. One of those 2 instructors went to talk to the instructor the next day at the hospital when I was there doing my clinical day. She then called me into a private room and had someone watch my patients. She said she would pass the 2 care plans and that I could take all the time in the world to do the required amount of care plans that were left but not to ever tell any of the other students. I did not take all the time in the world but did it that night and drove it to her the next day after I had gotten some sleep and was safe to drive out of town. I did not trust her one iota. I think I would have been her next victim. I know I am not a genius or anything, I am above average...but I was not a "failure" in any case. She just needed a victim. The stories at Capping and Pinning about the girl that coughed were exaggerated. An instructor who was not even there told me she coughed phlem all over the patients face! No one saw it but a student that I would not trust to report the truth. I made it thanks to the two instructors that had faith in me and went to bat for me. I was almost ruined by this instructor.
The unfairness has ruined a few lives at our school. One instructor that wanted to help the sudent that got kicked out was told if she did she would be looking for a new job. She quit later and is doing something much better in the nursing field now, I am happy for her. The director of the entire program retired early (was asked to), a new director is coming in. The program is now under the scrutiny of the NLN/State Education Dept. But what about the girls that did not make it?
So I think there are instructors that justly and unjustly make it difficult for students. They are human, humans do all sorts of things...right and wrong. I think the instructors should have to be scrutinized by the schools also, as in this situation the instructor is out of line. She refers to her own self as "The Care Plan Nazi"....an awful and unprofessional reference. She puts that in writing in her little "Welcome to my clinic and this is what I expect" paper she hands out.
Her affair with the nursing supervisor is know to everyone, she may think it is a secret but it is not. It is a small town. I am usually oblivious to things like that, I am not from that town, and it was clear to me. She even ended some of our clinicals early for "mandatory meetings" and I would sit in my car, eat my lunch and work on care plans to bring right back upstairs at the hospital and put in her file folder to save myslef a long trip back there to turn in an assignment. She was in the supervisors office flirting and laughing, not knowing I was six inches from the door.
I have a heart, I feel so baldly for the students that were treated unfalirly. If there was something I could do to help them I would but there isn't. One girl is seriously depressed and it was 7 months ago she got kicked out.It could happen to any of us. As long as there are instructors, bosses, people in power capable of thes kind of actions we are all potential victims.I must have an angel watching over me.
TE=Tweety]Do nursing instructors deliberately try to weed out students, by doing things like testing on material they haven't gone over yet, deliberately making it hard, picking on students?
My opinion was the "weeding out of students" was a myth.
The weeding out process seems to occur naturally, and the reason so many people don't make it through the program that started out, is that it's a tough, demanding, time consuming program, and whose eyes are on graduating top notch nurses who can pass NCLEX.
I do know teacher eyeball students they don't think are good clinicians and many of these cry "the teacher doesn't like me, and is out to get me". Or eyeball students that need a kick in the butt, or need a confidence boost and they feel picked on as well.
I don't think insturctors play games and try to weed students out.
I know there are bad insturctors and bad schools.
Geez !! That is awful ! I believe that things like that happen at
nursing schools accross the country. There is favoritism practiced
everywhere. A nursing student co-worker once told me that there
was alot of nasty politics and favoritism going on at the school that
she attended and graduated from There is a shortage of nursing
instructors, so they feel that they can treat people as they like.
The instructors should be graded as strictly as the students --
and those that are graded poorly on a consistent basis should
All of this crap to say that, yes, I think there is some degree of "weeding out."
It's too bad there isn't recourse to get report and get rid of these kinds of instructors.
You think with the instructor shortage that schools are willing to "settle" and because they really aren't in the field they don't know what's going on and don't listen to the students?
I'm glad to hear the above school is being looked at by the accrediting agencies.
There ought to be a legitimate form of complaint that is taken seriously, and with followup and investigation. It should be anonymous so that students aren't afraid to fail if they complain.
jansailsea
81 Posts
Excuse me, but as students, we are the paying customer, our tuition fees pay the instructors' salaries. And while I do not believe the customer is always right (liars, cheats,& ****holes exist everywhere), instructors who treat their students in a demeaning, "I don't have to respect you, but you better respect me or you're outta here" attitude DO NOT deserve my respect.
In a small exit meeting, all 6 of my fellow students, aged 20 to 58 yrs, told the interviewing Levels 5 thru 8 instructor that while the Levels 1 thru 4 instructors were skilled clinicians & excellent lecturers, they treated us so poorly with such condescension & disrespect during clinicals at the hospitals, NONE of us will recommend the school on principle.
There is absolutely no need to treat students as if they were the dirt beneath the instructors' feet.
All of us smile & talk politely to the Levels 1 thru 4 instructors when we see them, & may even compliment them for what we feel they taught us well or to our advantage, BUT we have to protect the investment & sacrifice of time we've already made.
The Levels 5 thru 8 instructors treated us with respect & their attitude was totally we are here to teach you & help you succeed.
The Levels 1 thru 4 instructors were there to teach the fundamentals & weed out the less than capable or the personalities the instructors, made obvious by pointed behavior, they did not care for, period.