We Must Demolish NP Diploma Mills

[cprimavera]

What is AANP doing with those programs??? I think we should unite to take an action on such diploma mills.

[PsychNurse24, BSN, RN]

1 minute ago, NurseBlaq said:

Well, make of this what you will. There are NPs and MDs in practice that will not precept students from certain online schools. I've seen it with my own eyes, as have many others. My professors at the B&M school I attend have said they won't precept students from certain programs either because they feel as if the education is lacking and thinks the students are being deprived of a quality education and wasting tuition. YOU may feel as though you're learning something but that may not be the case for students as a collective in your program overall. Just my $0.02.

OK, I understand your view. My view is that my daughter has graduated from Walden, passed her boards on her first attempt, and before even passing her boards had a job offer. I know two other people who have graduated from NP programs at Walden University. They also passed their boards on the first attempt and also are practicing now.  I also attend Walden and know that I am getting a good education.  And I am in contact with many people in my current program and they all feels like we’re getting a good education.

What I am suggesting is that if people feel so strongly about this, then they need to take action. Contact professional nursing organizations, get together and put together an action plan, do something to change how it is now. But to continually post on all nurses.com that Walden, Phoenix, and other Universities provide an inferior education insults us.  
 

I did due diligence in comparing many, many PMHNP programs before I started Walden. The classes at all universities, whether it’s Duke University or Walden, have to compare. That is how universities are accredited.  I have always done well in school and receive top grades. I did not pick Walden just because I could slide by into school and graduate with less knowledge than others.  What is infuriating is that people with anecdotal evidence keep telling me I’m a dummy when I have personal experience!

[PsychNurse24, BSN, RN]

12 minutes ago, djmatte said:

For one, you haven’t graduated or passed boards.  Let me know when you meet that bar. For two, multiple people here have expressed less than stellar experiences with students from your school. Not just me. Anecdote is still some form of evidence. Especially when it becomes overbearing. Your school sucks. Your school is a reflection on you. You have to prove you are better than you’re schools reputation at the end of the day. Even *if* you pass boards. Because to date your school is under investigation by the US government and has a regular track record of poor outcomes. Sorry not Sorry. 

Sorry, not sorry that you don’t understand what accreditation means. You don’t understand that classes have to compare. You don’t understand that I know people that have graduated from Walden and are practicing. I will let you know when I graduate and start practicing.  My daughter, who also graduated from Walden, passed her boards and has a job.  No, Walden does not have a record of poor educational outcomes, you’re just lying there.  Like I said, why don’t you be a big boy or girl and work to either improve educations from your so-called diploma mill universities or work with the ANCC about credentialing.   It’s easy to take pot shots at universities and other nurses. Do something!!

[djmatte, ADN, MSN, RN, NP]

9 minutes ago, PsychNurse24 said:

Sorry, not sorry that you don’t understand what accreditation means. You don’t understand that classes have to compare. You don’t understand that I know people that have graduated from Walden and are practicing. I will let you know when I graduate and start practicing.  My daughter, who also graduated from Walden, passed her boards and has a job.  No, Walden does not have a record of poor educational outcomes, you’re just lying there.  Like I said, why don’t you be a big boy or girl and work to either improve educations from your so-called diploma mill universities or work with the ANCC about credentialing.   It’s easy to take pot shots at universities and other nurses. Do something!!

I’ll just continue to discourage in this public forum anyone from attending that crap school and reinforcing it with my experience as a practicing nurse practitioner that they will never secure a clinical opportunity or job at any clinic I work. This on combination with the federal investigation of their school will hopefully keep others from making such a poor mistake. Thanks for playing. 

[PsychNurse24, BSN, RN]

Thank goodness none of the Walden graduates will ever work for your practice. We take a great research class that teaches us to evaluate evidence. I am afraid you would change your practice based on a few people’s opinions.  Come to think of it, some of my clients tell me that smoking meth helps them focus on the voices coming from the electrical outlets in their room.  I’m going to suggest to the psychiatrist that we stop discouraging people from using meth.  Surely this qualifies as expert opinion, and even though it is low on the evidence tree, it is still evidence. Just like your anecdotal evidence.

[djmatte, ADN, MSN, RN, NP]

3 minutes ago, PsychNurse24 said:

Thank goodness none of the Walden graduates will ever work for your practice. We take a great research class that teaches us to evaluate evidence. I am afraid you would change your practice based on a few people’s opinions.  Come to think of it, some of my clients tell me that smoking meth helps them focus on the voices coming from the electrical outlets in their room.  I’m going to suggest to the psychiatrist that we stop discouraging people from using meth.  Surely this qualifies as expert opinion, and even though it is low on the evidence tree, it is still evidence. Just like your anecdotal evidence.

Trust me. We aren’t losing anything here. ?. I’m sure there will be plenty of MDs lining up to exploit your “education” in an effort to pay you pennies on the dollar to make money hand over fist because they recognize (many MDs do understand this) that a Walden education is subpar and the grads will take whatever they can get. That school is worse than a Caribbean MD school. The the world of MDs(Who by and large control our collaboration opportunities) are beginning to recognize this. Good luck in your future. I already know your boss will jump on. I’m sure they have the highest level of ethical patient focus. ?

[PsychNurse24, BSN, RN]

2 minutes ago, djmatte said:

Trust me. We aren’t losing anything here. ?. I’m sure there will be plenty of MDs lining up to exploit your “education” in an effort to pay you pennies on the dollar to make money hand over fist because they recognize (many MDs do understand this) that a Walden education is subpar and the grads will take whatever they can get. That school is worse than a Caribbean MD school. The the world of MDs(Who by and large control our collaboration opportunities) are beginning to recognize this. Good luck in your future. I already know your boss will jump on. I’m sure they have the highest level of ethical patient focus. ?

Besides being SO intelligent you are hilarious.  I have healthy self worth and self confidence.  Unfortunately, you must lack the same traits as you have to pontificate on all nurses.com to tell me my education sucks.  Of course, you are also far superior to anyone at ANCC.  Little people with little minds will continue to insult nurses who dare go to Walden or any other university that you do not approve.  How dare we differ in opinion to you!!  I already have a great life and career and will continue to. Good luck to you. And no, thank you for playing.

[MentalKlarity, BSN, NP]

The email I once received from a for profit graduate asking for preceptorship was written at about a 3rd grade level. From a graduate student.

The one for profit student I did precept for a time was not only sorely lacking in knowledge but also completely incurious. When I tried teaching her clinical pearls or pathophysiology topics related to her patient care she sighed and rolled her eyes. I haven't precepted another since.

Lastly, I worked with an RN who was extremely slow. She had extreme difficulty understanding physiology and failed school at multiple levels. Last I heard she was in school to be an NP at a for profit program. She would never have gained entry into a school with standards.

My interactions with graduates and students of diploma mill schools has been frightening to say the least. 

[djmatte, ADN, MSN, RN, NP]

20 minutes ago, MentalKlarity said:

The email I once received from a for profit graduate asking for preceptorship was written at about a 3rd grade level. From a graduate student.

 The one for profit student I did precept for a time was not only sorely lacking in knowledge but also completely incurious. When I tried teaching her clinical pearls or pathophysiology topics related to her patient care she sighed and rolled her eyes. I haven't precepted another since.

Lastly, I worked with an RN who was extremely slow. She had extreme difficulty understanding physiology and failed school at multiple levels. Last I heard she was in school to be an NP at a for profit program. She would never have gained entry into a school with standards.

My interactions with graduates and students of diploma mill schools has been frightening to say the least. 

And that is coming from an actively working Psych NP.  But our anecdote means nothing to some people.  Just keep up telling like it is.  Maybe those future students will heed our advice and make wiser choices than others in their pursuit of higher education.

[londonflo]

35 minutes ago, MentalKlarity said:

The one for profit student I did precept for a time was not only sorely lacking in knowledge but also completely incurious.

I had one from Walden who couldn't show up on time. I tried to explain that I set up my day before clinical starts.."If I don't plan ahead, knowing what drugs, why, when etc. my whole day will be messed. She came ONE day on time.... I was told "she works FT (as a traveler and drives 3 hours each way), has a family and is going to school FT. I reflected back to her DNP ( At a for profit college..she was a "do nothing professional"--I did the work, she scolded me and got the paycheck). PS the monitoring DNP told me she left regular nursing college education because of the drama.  (and passed it on to me!)

Amazingly (knowing my city) she said you must know   Faculty XXXX. I said yes I had read about her in the local newspaper when she got fired for dereliction of duty.

 

[Hoosier_RN, MSN]

I went to my PCP yesterday for a checkup. While chatting, I told her that I'm thinking of going to school to become a NP (post masters program) and was asking her for school recommendations. Walden, Kaplan, and Chamberlain to name a few mentioned on here, were not on her list. I asked about them, told her I don't even know if they have a post masters program. She told me to avoid at all costs. She also mentioned that no local practitioners, affiliated with the local hospital or not, would precept students from those, and even named a few others to avoid (can't remember, as I'd never heard of them). I asked why, she said 'substandard quality' programs. I mentioned the argument that their students can pass the boards, etc. She calmly replied that how many RN/LPNs had passed boards and many were shocked? Good point from her.  I also mentioned that they have some intelligent students. She said she was sure some were, but the students that rank with area practitioners go to IUPUI, USI, UK, and UofL (locals in my area), there's a mixture of online, B&M, and hybrid . She stated that some schools just prepare better, just as some preceptor do. She also mentioned that healthcare entities in this area don't hire from those other educational institutions as well, due to the aforementioned issues.

You can naysay my comment all that wish, but this comes straight from a Dr that felt comfortable enough to speak for a whole area. 

My rural area is drowning in NPs (of all specialties, especially PHMP), so if I were considering the NP path, I'd definitely look at a school that would put me up front as opposed to leaving me trailing others in the minds of those that hire

ETA: I'm not thinking of NP route. I'd have to take a pay cut

[RN/WI, ADN, BSN, MSN, RN, APRN]

I took a poll from 5 Drs yesterday, asking about schools online verse brick and mortar. All the answers were the same :

1) We need providers for the patients , shortage of MDs , it is good there are online schools for working RNs

2) I would rather work with an experienced RN that comes from Chamberlain, Or other online programs, than an NP from a brick and mortar local with less clinical experience,

3) I have precepted and worked with , Chamberlain students that had more knowledge than some medical residents. (Depends on individual person) I have no problem working with or preventing online program students. In fact they stated that NP education in general brick n mortar or online for NP is short, this is why it only matters to them the actual nursing experience and type , depending on individual again was the statement.

4) All agreed we need NPs and the more we can provide the cost of care will be more reasonable and accessible to the patient, which is the goal.

5) All MDs agreed after me showing them this post that more economics should be mandated on Nursing so that they understand basic fiscal economics and what the current plan is , none of them saw this as an intellectual debate.

After much thought, the NPs that have such narrow minds that are insulting online NPs and actually have no idea what the majority of the Medical profession think , should enroll in :

Economics 101 and or think about serving another population than healthcare. 

[Hoosier_RN, MSN]

RN/WI said:

I took a poll from 5 Drs yesterday, asking about schools online verse brick and mortar. All the answers were the same :

1) We need providers for the patients , shortage of MDs , it is good there are online schools for working RNs

2) I would rather work with an experienced RN that comes from Chamberlain, Or other online programs, than an NP from a brick and mortar local with less clinical experience,

3) I have prevented and worked with , Chamberlain students that had more knowledge than some medical residents. (Depends on individual person)

4) All agreed we need NPs and the more we can provide the cost of care will be more reasonable and accessible to the patient, which is the goal.

5) All MDs agreed after me showing them this post that more economics should be mandated on Nursing so that they understand basic fiscal economics and what the current plan is , none of them saw this as an intellectual debate.

After much thought, the NPs that have such narrow minds that are insulting online NPs and actually have no idea what the majority of the Medical profession think , should enroll in :

Economics 101 and or think about serving another population than healthcare. 

Experienced is the word that makes a little difference. Granted RN and NP roles are vastly different, but many that are entering programs have little to no experience and don't know their way around healthcare. I knew of a NP, way back when I worked in LTC, who never worked day 1 in any healthcare capacity, write orders to an LPN that amounted to a procedure that required a MD to do it. When the LPN informed, NP stated that as the NP, she "wrote the orders, you dumb*** nurses better learn to follow them!" After the DON talked to our medical director, she wasn't seen or heard from again. And situations equivalent to this have happened on occasion. Could dumb situations happen with an experienced nurse? Sure, but less likely to have some of the issues that come from plain lack of basic knowledge