We Must Demolish NP Diploma Mills

djmatte, ADN, MSN, RN, NP · May 13, 2021

42 minutes ago, RN/WI said:

I literally read this post and can not believe the immaturity here. Are the persons who are trying to debate what the name of the school one went to hearing themselves?

As a NP, I believe that that we should stick together as a profession, (profession, meaning lets grow up and act as professionals). Who cares where someone went to school? This type of debate makes the profession appear stupid.
MDs don’ t stoop to this level I public, for Pete sake, grow up and move on!

It is the integrity of the provider that matters, not where one attended school.

What about the clinical integrity of the school? This isn’t a simple debate of attending a community college vs Yale. It’s considering real educational deficits schools like Walden or Phoenix have persistently produced. So while name alone isn’t the real debate, the educational integrity behind that name is. When a school has no barrier of entry, no statistics of graduation or board pass rates, is responsible for thousands of graduates by themselves per year, and has questionable readiness as evidenced by our clinical experiences with their students, it’s fair game to question their integrity.

subee, MSN, CRNA · May 13, 2021

2 hours ago, RN/WI said:

I literally read this post and can not believe the immaturity here. Are the persons who are trying to debate what the name of the school one went to hearing themselves?

As a NP, I believe that that we should stick together as a profession, (profession, meaning lets grow up and act as professionals). Who cares where someone went to school? This type of debate makes the profession appear stupid.
MDs don’ t stoop to this level I public, for Pete sake, grow up and move on!

It is the integrity of the provider that matters, not where one attended school.

I'm not sure that intregrity is directly related to competence. Our profession is too large and variable to agree on anything:) What makes up appear stupid is setting the standards for admission and graduation so low that we are fodder for criticism from the MD community. If people want to become advanced nurse practitioners without any nursing experience, let them be called something else. Most reasonable humans would assume that if you profess to be advanced practice anything, you in fact, backed your graduate education up with experience. Maybe a" non-advanced nurse practitioner" which some of them are. CRNA's and CNM's cannot get into grad school without experience. I don't know why primary care NP's should be carved out of that requirement. The nature of your work gives you more latitude for time in making decisions but your body of knowledge of broader in primary care. It's different than ours but not lesser.

PsychNurse24, BSN, RN · May 13, 2021

2 hours ago, djmatte said:

What about the clinical integrity of the school? This isn’t a simple debate of attending a community college vs Yale. It’s considering real educational deficits schools like Walden or Phoenix have persistently produced. So while name alone isn’t the real debate, the educational integrity behind that name is. When a school has no barrier of entry, no statistics of graduation or board pass rates, is responsible for thousands of graduates by themselves per year, and has questionable readiness as evidenced by our clinical experiences with their students, it’s fair game to question their integrity.

For the last time, you have no proof that Walden or Phoenix persistently produce graduates that are less than other graduates. I am tired of the whining. We disagree. Why don’t you get a specialized group together on a different thread? You all can work together. Put together a plan. Take three months to research what you think needs to be done to make changes. Maybe get an audience with ANCC. Maybe compare classes between different universities. Maybe try to figure out what percentage of graduates from different schools get jobs. Whatever it is, put a plan in place and do something! Take action if you are so convinced that Walden and others are inferior. Quit whining and quit insulting other Nurses.

djmatte, ADN, MSN, RN, NP · May 13, 2021

PsychNurse24 said:

For the last time, you have no proof that Walden or Phoenix persistently produce graduates that are less than other graduates. I am tired of the whining. We disagree. Why don't you get a specialized group together on a different thread? You all can work together. Put together a plan. Take three months to research what you think needs to be done to make changes. Maybe get an audience with ANCC. Maybe compare classes between different universities. Maybe try to figure out what percentage of graduates from different schools get jobs. Whatever it is, put a plan in place and do something! Take action if you are so convinced that Walden and others are inferior. Quit whining and quit insulting other Nurses.

Maybe you should *again* produce some statistics of how many people start school there, actually graduate, and actually pass boards. Because the school doesn't make that information public. But all of those are identifiers of what is and is not a good school. And also Past that, I'll take my experience with Walden clinical students and tell you and anyone else all day till Sunday their education is garbage and the quality of their students aren't worth the time to even consider the school in both hiring or clinical rotations.

PsychNurse24, BSN, RN · May 13, 2021

4 hours ago, arami047x said:

See Provision 9 of the ANA code of ethics:

Provision 9

"The profession of nursing, collectively through its professional organizations, must articulate nursing values, maintain the integrity of the profession, and integrate principles of social justice into nursing and health policy."

So as stated above, I can definitely advocate to increase standards in my own profession.

There are already authorities who maintain the integrity of the profession. ANCC and other governing boards. Plus universities that have to meet certain standards of integrity. Plus nurse practitioners who must pass boards before they can practice. If you consider yourself an authority above those, then you are sadly mistaken!

But if you want change, as I told somebody else on this thread, take action. Get a group together, get a specialized thread here on all nurses.com, put an action plan into place, and figure out how to make changes. Contact your professional nursing organization, per your quote. Until then, you have to live with what is in place. It does no good to whine and complain and insult! Be a part of a solution.
I, myself, don’t think there is a problem.

PsychNurse24, BSN, RN · May 13, 2021

11 minutes ago, djmatte said:

Maybe you should *again* produce some statistics of how many people start school there, actually graduate, and actually pass boards. Because the school doesn’t make that information public. But all of those are identifiers of what is and is not a good school. And also Past that, I’ll take my experience with Walden clinical students and tell you and anyone else all day till Sunday their education is garbage and the quality of their students aren’t worth the time to even consider the school in both hiring or clinical rotations.

I don’t want to and I don’t have to because I don’t see a problem. Take some action steps and quit whining!!! As a Walden student and as I know several other people who have graduated from Walden and are practicing NPs, I will take my own experience over yours! You’re like the Night Shift nurses who complained for years on end that the charge nurses would never help them. I would say did you talk to the charge nurses. No. Did you talk to your manager. No. And I’m sure they’re still whining and complaining to this day. TAKE ACTION if you feel so strongly.

Editorial Team / Admin · May 13, 2021

Quality schools won’t have this on their records.
https://www.hlcommission.org/download/_PublicDisclosureNotices/Public Disclosure Notice - Walden University 11.9.20.pdf

And I say as a graduate (non-clinical, nursing education) that the degree was insanely easy and not rigorous. I thought differently when I chose the school (partly because at the time my employer had an agreement with them regarding tuition and thought that lended them some credibility) but now on the other side I feel differently.

PsychNurse24, BSN, RN · May 13, 2021

1 minute ago, Rose_Queen said:

Quality schools won’t have this on their records.
https://www.hlcommission.org/download/_PublicDisclosureNotices/Public Disclosure Notice - Walden University 11.9.20.pdf

And I say as a graduate (non-clinical, nursing education) that the degree was insanely easy and not rigorous. I thought differently when I chose the school (partly because at the time my employer had an agreement with them regarding tuition and thought that lended them some credibility) but now on the other side I feel differently.

Walden did a great job communicating to me the price of my education, the classes I would be taking, and every other rule! And I am getting a quality education as my two friends did who have graduated and are practicing NPs! p.s. They passed her boards on the first attempt. So I guess Walden didn’t give them such a horrible education after all!

NurseBlaq · May 13, 2021

8 minutes ago, Rose_Queen said:

Quality schools won’t have this on their records.
https://www.hlcommission.org/download/_PublicDisclosureNotices/Public Disclosure Notice - Walden University 11.9.20.pdf

And I say as a graduate (non-clinical, nursing education) that the degree was insanely easy and not rigorous. I thought differently when I chose the school (partly because at the time my employer had an agreement with them regarding tuition and thought that lended them some credibility) but now on the other side I feel differently.

Do you know the nature of the false claims?

PsychNurse24, BSN, RN · May 13, 2021

39 minutes ago, londonflo said:

It is up to him to prove his point that some universities do not provide quality education. So far, all he has are anecdotal suppositions. The processes are all in place. Graduate from an accredited university, take the NP boards, and start practicing. If you agree, why don’t you defend your position? Better yet change the systems that are now in place. If I knew how, I’d post a funny picture of you all with inflated egos and giant heads! (To fit your vastly superior brain power)

NurseBlaq · May 13, 2021

2 minutes ago, PsychNurse24 said:

It is up to him to prove his point that some universities do not provide quality education. So far, all he has are anecdotal suppositions. The processes are all in place. Graduate from an accredited university, take the NP boards, and start practicing. If you agree, why don’t you defend your position? Better yet change the systems that are now in place. If I knew how, I’d post a funny picture of you all with inflated egos and giant heads! (To fit your vastly superior brain power)

Well, make of this what you will. There are NPs and MDs in practice that will not precept students from certain online schools. I've seen it with my own eyes, as have many others. My professors at the B&M school I attend have said they won't precept students from certain programs either because they feel as if the education is lacking and thinks the students are being deprived of a quality education and wasting tuition. YOU may feel as though you're learning something but that may not be the case for students as a collective in your program overall. Just my $0.02.

djmatte, ADN, MSN, RN, NP · May 13, 2021

7 minutes ago, PsychNurse24 said:

It is up to him to prove his point that some universities do not provide quality education. So far, all he has are anecdotal suppositions. The processes are all in place. Graduate from an accredited university, take the NP boards, and start practicing. If you agree, why don’t you defend your position? Better yet change the systems that are now in place. If I knew how, I’d post a funny picture of you all with inflated egos and giant heads! (To fit your vastly superior brain power)

For one, you haven’t graduated or passed boards. Let me know when you meet that bar. For two, multiple people here have expressed less than stellar experiences with students from your school. Not just me. Anecdote is still some form of evidence. Especially when it becomes overbearing. Your school sucks. Your school is a reflection on you. You have to prove you are better than you’re schools reputation at the end of the day. Even *if* you pass boards. Because to date your school is under investigation by the US government and has a regular track record of poor outcomes. Sorry not Sorry.