We Must Demolish NP Diploma Mills

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What is AANP doing with those programs??? I think we should unite to take an action on such diploma mills.

11 hours ago, djmatte said:

Sustainable by what standards?

In short, there is absolutely no cost control. Universities will only continue to increase tuition, and program requirements, provided the continued existence of government backed student loans. Through this dynamic, higher education is incentivized and empowered to artificially increase demand, and as a result, produce inferior products; how else could I have spent half a semester on the topic social justice, or witness a DNP graduate with an inability to utilize an otoscope or appropriately diagnose and treat impetigo? This dynamic is missed by quite a few in my opinion. If one is truly concerned about patients, program admission criteria (the weight given to this, honestly I cannot understand, seriously who the heck knows anyone that received less than a 3.0 GPA in their undergrad program, what a curb for quality HA!), and supply side issues, then one should focus their anxieties less on those who worked hard to become NP's, and more on the system that funds and perpetuates. As stated earlier, significantly subpar programs will always weed themselves out, as will subpar NP's. Which is another topic entirely, that for whatever reason is continually mentioned by you specifically. This idea that an MD would hire an NP for easy money, without concern for their business, or patient pool. This is wholly laughable to me, and an obviously terrible business model.

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On 2/18/2021 at 10:13 PM, Rose_Queen said:

Numerous

Physicians hiring sub-par clinicians isn't exactly laughable.  It does happen. Particularly when they don't recognize the questionable value of these programs (or willfully choose to ignore it).  Just as we see people post here occasionally stating "I have an undergrad GPA of 2.5 and my only option is Walden...".  These people who have clearly demonstrated poor academics still have an option. for better or worse.  These companies MAY weed themselves out, but not while bankrupting thousands when clinicians ultimately question their education, skills, and capacity to work competently.  The THOUSANDS this and similar companies turn out defrauded and perhaps even without an accredittng organization willing to support their credentials.

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I would argue that cost control exists in admissions control. Setting specific barriers of entry (GPA, standardized testing, etc) to alleviate a multitude of students entering programs because they “feel” it’s right for them without showing the academic rigor to grasp and understand the advanced concepts a provider needs to. A limited bar of entry keeps costs down even when academia increases the Willy nilly. 

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6 hours ago, djmatte said:

Physicians hiring sub-par clinicians isn't exactly laughable. 

I think your scenario is, and would lead to an unhealthy system that would not survive. But in an effort to entertain your line of thinking, I’ll be sure to look up when I step out from my porch this morning. I don’t want one of these clinicians, with their stethoscope on backwards, to land directly on my head when she falls out of the sky. But at least the receiving NP would be less inclined to need her otoscope for that severe of a trauma.

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6 hours ago, djmatte said:

A limited bar of entry keeps costs down even when academia increases the Willy nilly. 

Barring the known shortage of PCP’s, short term and long term. You would still have to account for the good will of universities to take in less money. Standardized testing would be good, so long as applicable to the career. I feel if done right this would not serve as a barrier. I also think testing before the start of the program would not hamper innovation. But seriously, this would make absolutely no difference than the current system we have now.

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Specializes in Trauma hospital/Acute Care/Ambulatory.

I wonder how these NP candidates pass the state board NP licensure exam. If they can pass, they do at least have academic skills regardless past GPA and schools. The state board of licensure website has a list of accredited NP programs clearly. If the schools are on the list, they should not be too awful I am assuming unless you are arguing that the board licensure body has some quality control issues.

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25 minutes ago, QqGgKk said:

I wonder how these NP candidates pass the state board NP licensure exam. If they can pass, they do at least have academic skills regardless past GPA and schools. The state board of licensure website has a list of accredited NP programs clearly. If the schools are on the list, they should not be too awful I am assuming unless you are arguing that the board licensure body has some quality control issues.

The question is how many actually pass (or even graduate). I have no detraction from giving a graduate of these schools who pass the boards some consideration, but that candidate better rock an interview. But the concern as noted is these schools take in thousands per year, but produce no statistics on their actual rates of attrition or actual board pass rates. So where there is no bar of entry, many are duped into thinking this kind of curriculum is for them and tens of thousands of dollars per student are wasted.  Without those stats, how can anyone gauge the value of quality of the education? It’s not so much the board quality though that many have an issue with. It’s the accreditation agencies that ignore these real concerns. Especially in the realm of clinical rotations and the lack of that oversight and minimal expectations. 

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Specializes in Trauma hospital/Acute Care/Ambulatory.

Interesting point on the quality control of the accreditation agency! Lovely ACEN and CCNE LOL

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Specializes in ACNP-BC, Adult Critical Care, Cardiology.
On 4/5/2021 at 11:50 AM, londonflo said:

https://tcf.org/content/commentary/for-profit-medical-schools-once-banished-are-sneaking-back-onto-public-university-campuses/?agreed=1

 

 

Not to nitpick but the original post said, no "for profit MD program" exists and the link your provided is a DO program. In effect, the original statement is true as there has been no for-profit MD program yet in existence. There has been other for-profit DO programs that have started out with Rocky Vista University in CO being the first when it opened in 2007.

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Specializes in Psychiatry.
On 4/6/2021 at 8:01 AM, djmatte said:

The question is how many actually pass (or even graduate). I have no detraction from giving a graduate of these schools who pass the boards some consideration, but that candidate better rock an interview. But the concern as noted is these schools take in thousands per year, but produce no statistics on their actual rates of attrition or actual board pass rates. So where there is no bar of entry, many are duped into thinking this kind of curriculum is for them and tens of thousands of dollars per student are wasted.  Without those stats, how can anyone gauge the value of quality of the education? It’s not so much the board quality though that many have an issue with. It’s the accreditation agencies that ignore these real concerns. Especially in the realm of clinical rotations and the lack of that oversight and minimal expectations. 

Per reviews I have read online from other students, some of these schools actually engage in shady practice that allows them to boost higher pass rates and make more money - an exit exam. They create obscenely difficult exit exams that the majority of their own students do not pass due to subpar education. They make passing this exam a requirement for graduating or receiving transcripts- which means they cannot sit for the exam without passing it. This ensures the majority of the students that they KNOW have not been educated properly are never allowed to even take the exam and thus do not cause the school to have to post a 30-40% pass rate. There was an entire NYTimes article about a for-profit RN program that did this.

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On 4/4/2021 at 8:41 PM, PsychNurse24 said:

Wow, you’re making the broad statement that NPs are now incompetent, thanks to diploma mill schools.  I know of a young lady that just graduated from one of your dreadful diploma mill schools. She interviewed for a job and was offered the job contingent on her passing the boards. She just passed the boards on her first attempt.  She is going to make an excellent PMHNP.  When you smear the schools, you smear the students who are attending them and who have recently graduated.  
 

Can anyone say cancel culture!?!  Also similar to the news station that says they don’t have to consider all points of view. Very, very scary!  

Okay so you know one person that went to a diploma mill and passed boards, does that mean there's no problems with these schools?  

Even if you know 10 people who went to a diploma mill school and passed boards, does that mean a problem doesn't exist?

What about the 10 NP's you don't know from diploma mills that are out there in the workforce underprepared making critical mistakes?

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Specializes in Psychiatric, in school for PMHNP..

Still waiting to hear how you know that there are ill prepared NPs out there making mistakes. You just make this stuff up!  

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