We Must Demolish NP Diploma Mills

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What is AANP doing with those programs??? I think we should unite to take an action on such diploma mills.

4 hours ago, Shamrock1145 said:

I think license and certification is only viewed up to a certain point that it will fit the writers given narrative, and once reached, it is dismissed for exactly what it is, an entry level requirements. Aim to not let emotion cloud your judgement on this thread. While there is about 5-6 naysayers here, there are many more that know, through real world experience, the caliber of critical thinking that exists in many nurses that go on to “prestigious” 90k a year programs. Some on this forum act is if they are the sole purveyors of reason, logic, and perception of literally every MD and NP out there, and do so with complete lack of evidence.

Burnnnnn LOL

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1 minute ago, Ace Savanahh said:

Burnnnnn LOL

So much substance in this thoughtful response.  ?

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2 hours ago, MentalKlarity said:

Look, here's the bottom line. The for-profit programs are an embarrassment. They are well known to be the bottom of the barrel schools. They mainly exist as a way to make money for the investors, and they spend large sums of money on recruitment and marketing and sales tactics as opposed to research. They've proliferated like crazy and struck gold in the world of nursing. Other professions ban them entirely (there is no such thing as a for profit MD program) and yet nurses not only flock to them, they promote them and defend them as equal to not for profit programs. Do an internet search for "for profit college" and look at the ENDLESS articles talking about how many students have been defrauded. Look at how many programs have simply up and vanished once the numbers no longer make sense, or they finally get sued. Walden University is currently under investigation for their nursing program and there has been no update, it may end up closing that program for all we know!

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2021/03/08/a-new-report-reveals-the-false-promises-of-for-profit-colleges/?sh=1ab9cddb35fc

 

A new classification of higher education institutions shows that when grouped by their net price and the percentage of their students who were subsequently repaying student loans, for-profit four-year colleges were the worst-performing institutions—by a lot.

The study, “Paying More for Less? A New Classification System to Prioritize Outcomes in Higher Education,” was conducted by Justin Ortagus of the University of Florida and Rodney Hughes of West Virginia University for Third Way, the left-center D.C think tank.

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The researchers examined one variable that might account for the pattern - how much schools spend on instruction per FTE student. What they found was that instead of spending average or higher amounts on instruction, for-profit institutions spend a larger share of their resources on advertising. According to the report, “For-profit institutions account for roughly 40% of all spending on higher education advertising despite enrolling only about 6% of college students.” Many for-profits were among the schools spending the lowest on instruction per FTE student.

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For example, the authors found that the proportion of students completing their certificate or degree differed greatly depending on their background characteristics and the type of institution they attended. The six-year graduation rate for Black students entering higher education in fall 2012 was 42.9% at public four-year universities and 45.5% at private non-profit four-year universities. It was only 14.2% at for-profit four-year institutions.

I was computer engineer before nursing.  I could have read the books and watched Youtube and blown past the NCLEX in 6 months.  All schools are for profit. Check out NCLEX pass rates in CA.  Some of these mills have better pas rates that these prestigious schools.   

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Specializes in oncology.
16 hours ago, djmatte said:

Particularly called out by name (Walden, Phoenix, etc) who continue to fail to meet even those basic benchmarks. 

I was a very early convert to choosing a NP for my health care but questioning that decision in wake of current experiences. Now I read that some NP students PAY for a preceptor. Will this paid preceptor actually communicate to the university some deficiencies in the student? 

I had an MSN student with me for a Nursing Education degree clinical practicum. She only came on time  only ONCE for clinical, I was told by Walden that she was working full time, had children and going to school full time...pass her on. I could not get a preview of what I was going to evaluate her on, and her written paper for the course lacked references. I was of course not paid although the Walden Faculty got paid. With a rude email from the Walden Faculty, she transfered to another clinical! My college does not take student teachers since.....

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Specializes in oncology.
3 hours ago, Ace Savanahh said:

 I could have read the books and watched Youtube and blown past the NCLEX in 6 months

Lucky for you! Are you able to deliver hands on skills in an expert manner, time management for atleast a team of patients, decipher lab work and correlate it to a patient's condition instantly? Identify the side effects, contraindations and normal dose of meds? Please tell me more!

  • I gotta ask..did you blow past any NCLEX simulation test with 6 months of study? 
  • Be sure to brag about this genius ability to your coworkers...  I am sure they will welcome your boasts.
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Specializes in oncology.
17 hours ago, djmatte said:

Particularly called out by name (Walden, Phoenix, etc) who continue to fail to meet even those basic benchmarks. 

I was a very early convert to choosing a NP for my health care but questioning that decision in wake of current experiences. Now I read that some NP students PAY for a preceptor. Will this paid preceptor actually communicate to the university some deficiencies in the student? 

I had an MSN student with me for a Nursing Education degree clinical practicum. She only came on time  only ONCE for clinical, I was told by Walden that she was working full time, had children and going to school full time...pass her on. I could not get a preview of what I was going to evaluate her on, and her written paper for the course lacked references. I was of course not paid although the Walden Faculty got paid. With a rude email from the Walden Faculty, she transfered to another clinical! My college does not take student teachers since.....

 

 

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Specializes in oncology.
5 hours ago, MentalKlarity said:

(there is no such thing as a for profit MD program)

https://tcf.org/content/commentary/for-profit-medical-schools-once-banished-are-sneaking-back-onto-public-university-campuses/?agreed=1

 

 

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1 hour ago, londonflo said:

https://tcf.org/content/commentary/for-profit-medical-schools-once-banished-are-sneaking-back-onto-public-university-campuses/?agreed=1

 

 

In response to the first sentence of the article at this link, the Cali branch of the Otter family disavows any connection, familial or otherwise, to the said mentioned Butch Otter.  The Otter clan would never consider consorting with for profit educational institutions, not now, or ever, or even yesterday.

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2 hours ago, londonflo said:

https://tcf.org/content/commentary/for-profit-medical-schools-once-banished-are-sneaking-back-onto-public-university-campuses/?agreed=1

 

 

That garbage is gonna create a whole class of unmatched med students who will never go on to actually become doctors. 

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Specializes in Psychiatry.
1 hour ago, djmatte said:

That garbage is gonna create a whole class of unmatched med students who will never go on to actually become doctors. 

I mean the whole article talks about how horrible the for profit schools are historically and that's why they were banished in the first place. Not exactly a positive article for the for-profit lovers.

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4 minutes ago, MentalKlarity said:

I mean the whole article talks about how horrible the for profit schools are historically and that's why they were banished in the first place. Not exactly a positive article for the for-profit lovers.

I pay close attention to the plight of residents and the concerns of other clinicians who are impacted by NP saturation. They have legit concerns about the preparedness of recent graduates and specifically certain for profit schools. They often present clear shortfalls of those students in their forums. But many of these for profit students won’t take the time to understand their actual competition, much less recognize the reality of their own curriculums shortcomings. 

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10 hours ago, MentalKlarity said:

The problem is they aren't always "viable" candidates. Walden and other for profit programs don't really have any entry requirements other than access to loan money so we don't know if the people they accept are viable or not.

I should rephrase the initial comment. The idea I meant to convey is I do not want to limit options for viable candidates, not entry. The onus of entry into the field is on every candidate, as it should be. I did not word this correctly.

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