We Must Demolish NP Diploma Mills

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What is AANP doing with those programs??? I think we should unite to take an action on such diploma mills.

16 hours ago, Neuro Guy NP said:

I'm done.

Anything else?

???

I literally mentioned my supporting reasons like 4 times and you never once replied to them. So... you're the one being professional by completely disengaging with reason from the very beginning? ???

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On 2/16/2021 at 4:42 PM, PsychNurse24 said:

Please do disengage. It is obvious to me that your whole point is “getting you to see the flaws ...”.   You only want people to come around to your point of you. You are not interested in other points of view.

Psych nurse I agree with that other guy..... you're missing the point. 

There is no data.............yet......we can all agree on that. Maybe one day there will be. 

However right now we have many many opinions to the point that it is becoming common opinion that NP"s are incompetent. I've worked with some amazing NP's but I've also worked with some terrifying one who I know for a fact went to diploma mill schools. 

The way I hear physicians talk about NP's in the last few years is not the same way they use to talk about NP's, there's definitely been a shift. 

We want the best for the NP profession and these diploma mills are ruining the reputation of NP's. 

As someone else said no study's does not equal "I'm right" 

There's no study's on "does salt make food taste better" but it common opinion that it does. 

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3 minutes ago, paramedic-RN said:

However right now we have many many opinions to the point that it is becoming common opinion that NP"s are incompetent. I've worked with some amazing NP's but I've also worked with some terrifying one who I know for a fact went to diploma mill schools. 

This thread loves the anecdotal....

While still a student, I did my urgent care rotation with a preceptor who had previously graduated from an online program. She knew her stuff, knew it well, and was amazing with her patients, quite possibly the best clinical rotation I ever experienced. This preceptor just so happened to also be "orienting" a new hire that recently graduated from a D1 school, brick and mortar. I say orienting in the sense that she had already completed her orientation officially, but was unofficially still very much orienting. This NP admittedly could not use an otoscope, came to my preceptor with questions about everything under the sun, and from what I heard, was later responsible for a new clinic closing down as they received so many complaints during her tenure there. How would it be possible for the online program graduate to be so effective in her role, whereas the D1 brick and mortar NP was so terrifying unprepared?

 

 

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Specializes in Psychiatric, in school for PMHNP..
24 minutes ago, paramedic-RN said:

Psych nurse I agree with that other guy..... you're missing the point. 

There is no data.............yet......we can all agree on that. Maybe one day there will be. 

However right now we have many many opinions to the point that it is becoming common opinion that NP"s are incompetent. I've worked with some amazing NP's but I've also worked with some terrifying one who I know for a fact went to diploma mill schools. 

The way I hear physicians talk about NP's in the last few years is not the same way they use to talk about NP's, there's definitely been a shift. 

We want the best for the NP profession and these diploma mills are ruining the reputation of NP's. 

As someone else said no study's does not equal "I'm right" 

There's no study's on "does salt make food taste better" but it common opinion that it does. 

Wow, you’re making the broad statement that NPs are now incompetent, thanks to diploma mill schools.  I know of a young lady that just graduated from one of your dreadful diploma mill schools. She interviewed for a job and was offered the job contingent on her passing the boards. She just passed the boards on her first attempt.  She is going to make an excellent PMHNP.  When you smear the schools, you smear the students who are attending them and who have recently graduated.  
 

Can anyone say cancel culture!?!  Also similar to the news station that says they don’t have to consider all points of view. Very, very scary!  

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14 minutes ago, Shamrock1145 said:

This thread loves the anecdotal....

While still a student, I did my urgent care rotation with a preceptor who had previously graduated from an online program. She knew her stuff, knew it well, and was amazing with her patients, quite possibly the best clinical rotation I ever experienced. This preceptor just so happened to also be "orienting" a new hire that recently graduated from a D1 school, brick and mortar. I say orienting in the sense that she had already completed her orientation officially, but was unofficially still very much orienting. This NP admittedly could not use an otoscope, came to my preceptor with questions about everything under the sun, and from what I heard, was later responsible for a new clinic closing down as they received so many complaints during her tenure there. How would it be possible for the online program graduate to be so effective in her role, whereas the D1 brick and mortar NP was so terrifying unprepared?

 

 

Please clarify “online” with specifics. Because as many have stated, “online” does not equal “diploma mill”.  Any online worth their salt has strong preceptor/faculty engagement and clearly articulate their pass rate and board preparedness numbers.  We have articulated very specific parameters for that title multiple times. Particularly called out by name (Walden, Phoenix, etc) who continue to fail to meet even those basic benchmarks. 

3 minutes ago, PsychNurse24 said:

Wow, you’re making the broad statement that NPs are now incompetent, thanks to diploma mill schools.  I know of a young lady that just graduated from one of your dreadful diploma mill schools. She interviewed for a job and was offered the job contingent on her passing the boards. She just passed the boards on her first attempt.  She is going to make an excellent PMHNP.  When you smear the schools, you smear the students who are attending them and who have recently graduated.  
 

Can anyone say cancel culture!?!  Also similar to the news station that says they don’t have to consider all points of view. Very, very scary!  

Speaking of anecdote. ? hi pot, meet kettle!

 Still waiting on those board pass rates and intake to graduation rates. 

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1 minute ago, djmatte said:

We.......

I feel the association with subpar training through online programs is rampant on this board, I see no need to entertain your request for specifics, especially given your history of aggressive posts. I have asked in the past that this specific thread be deleted, as it typically devolves into a dumpster fire, mainly by way of the arrogant. I am certain that nothing constructive would occur with any further dialogue, with you specifically.....

BUT, for those still reading.... I think I have made my stance known in regards to limiting access to NP programs. As stated before, if a program produces a subpar product, it will eventually fail to gain students - be it through a natural course of inability of graduates to find employment, students to find preceptorship, or through the courts as per the students that would have been sold a terrible product.  I am all for options, especially given the current climate of higher education. Online has the most to offer at this point in time, and I find it unjust to view an NP based off their school rather their own personal merits or experiences.

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Specializes in Psychiatry.

We have no research studies.

We have a lot of anecdotal data.

We have enough people saying they've encountered poorly prepared diploma mill graduates and students, enough recruiters saying they no longer hire diploma mill graduates.

We have students who have graduated from these programs posting online who talk about never having even gone to campus once to have their skills evaluated. They find their own preceptors and the schools don't even vet them. These same schools admit anyone who applies, and their "admissions counselors" are nothing more than salesman. A huge number of these programs are currently under investigation or on probation because they do not meet basic standards and mislead students. 

These programs act like scams. They have shareholders and boards and their main goal is usually just figuring out how to get as much tuition money as possible while spending as little money as possible on education. It's an investment, nothing more. They often hire adjunct professors who are barely qualified so they don't have to pay them as much, and the teaching is almost all done via discussion board and papers. 

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28 minutes ago, PsychNurse24 said:

She interviewed for a job and was offered the job contingent on her passing the boards. She just passed the boards on her first attempt.  She is going to make an excellent PMHNP. 

Good for her.

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Specializes in Psychiatric, in school for PMHNP..
38 minutes ago, Shamrock1145 said:

This thread loves the anecdotal....

While still a student, I did my urgent care rotation with a preceptor who had previously graduated from an online program. She knew her stuff, knew it well, and was amazing with her patients, quite possibly the best clinical rotation I ever experienced. This preceptor just so happened to also be "orienting" a new hire that recently graduated from a D1 school, brick and mortar. I say orienting in the sense that she had already completed her orientation officially, but was unofficially still very much orienting. This NP admittedly could not use an otoscope, came to my preceptor with questions about everything under the sun, and from what I heard, was later responsible for a new clinic closing down as they received so many complaints during her tenure there. How would it be possible for the online program graduate to be so effective in her role, whereas the D1 brick and mortar NP was so terrifying unprepared?

 

 

So everyone is going to answer you that it is only the diploma mill online schools that are bad. Of course no facts to support this, just more anecdotal info.  And of course even though I attend one of these diploma middle schools, and my daughter just graduated from one,  passed her boards, and has a job offer, they continue to insist the education is horrible. Their opinions are far superior to our direct experience.
 

 But I agree with you. I go back to a story that my friend tells. She has been a doctor for over 30 years and graduated from a top university. She told me there were doctors there who barely made it through, because they had pass/fail.  

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Just now, PsychNurse24 said:

So everyone is going to answer you that it is only the diploma mill online schools that are bad. Of course no facts to support this, just more anecdotal info.  And of course even though I attend one of these diploma middle schools, and my daughter just graduated from one,  passed her boards, and has a job offer, they continue to insist the education is horrible. Their opinions are far superior to our direct experience.
 

 But I agree with you. I go back to a story that my friend tells. She has been a doctor for over 30 years and graduated from a top university. She told me there were doctors there who barely made it through, because they had pass/fail.  

I could anecdotal this board to the moon and back with stories, but I do not like the negativity that would occur with such a form of persuasion. I honestly have asked multiple times that this specific thread be deleted. It brings nothing substantive, the arguments are based in no more fact than the garbage nightly news, much of the dialogue is poor (even what is left after the great moderator purge) and it really just serves as a jumping board for many to tear people down. 

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Specializes in Psychiatry.
10 minutes ago, PsychNurse24 said:

So everyone is going to answer you that it is only the diploma mill online schools that are bad. Of course no facts to support this, just more anecdotal info.  And of course even though I attend one of these diploma middle schools, and my daughter just graduated from one,  passed her boards, and has a job offer, they continue to insist the education is horrible. Their opinions are far superior to our direct experience.
 

 But I agree with you. I go back to a story that my friend tells. She has been a doctor for over 30 years and graduated from a top university. She told me there were doctors there who barely made it through, because they had pass/fail.  

We're only talking about for profit schools. It doesn't matter about online vs brick and mortar. All that matters is being for profit. For profit programs have a history of fraudulent and predatory practices. Hundreds of them have been under investigation, and congress is acting even now to try to put rules into place to protect unwitting students from being taken advantage of by these "schools"

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Specializes in Psychiatric, in school for PMHNP..
43 minutes ago, djmatte said:

Please clarify “online” with specifics. Because as many have stated, “online” does not equal “diploma mill”.  Any online worth their salt has strong preceptor/faculty engagement and clearly articulate their pass rate and board preparedness numbers.  We have articulated very specific parameters for that title multiple times. Particularly called out by name (Walden, Phoenix, etc) who continue to fail to meet even those basic benchmarks. 

Speaking of anecdote. ? hi pot, meet kettle!

 Still waiting on those board pass rates and intake to graduation rates. 

Don’t care!  Like I said I trust my own direct experience with my diploma mill rather than your anecdotal information.  And I’m so glad you have “articulated the parameters many times”,  Because you are the experts who get to dictate parameters and set your expectations.  I guess I missed the memo that told me that you’re in charge!

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