We Must Demolish NP Diploma Mills

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What is AANP doing with those programs??? I think we should unite to take an action on such diploma mills.

5 hours ago, djmatte said:

I have no doubt about that. But we’re talking shared experiences from very specific schools regarding expectations and competencies.  The bulk of NPs here have concerns. The onus is on the one freaking out about our opinions and concerns to maybe persuade us why those aren’t valid. Not the other way around.   The facts still remain, these schools provide no barrier of entry (good or bad) and no real oversight into the actual education or ability of their students. And nobody who attends there has commented or particularly argued against those facts.  They just carry on that “I am doing well” or “my clinical who currently employs me and wants me to work for them is excellent” attitude.   But they have nothing to offer regarding the broader student body or the actual school outcomes besides “no studies means I’m right”. 

Maybe I will quote myself for posterity as we wait for some actual semblance if persuasion on why actively working NPs should really consider the merits of your school or schools like it.  Your work regards you well because you are making them money hand over fist as they pay you peanuts to what they would pay a doctor.  And the more providers they can pump out of bare minimum schools only increases that bottom line.  Period.

But we clearly articulated our concerns based on our own experiences with those students in clinicals.  So where's your rebuttal on the perceived lack of academic rigor?  What scholastic or clinical barriers are in place to ensure an educated cohort are graduating?  What is Walden's actual first time board pass rate?  I can articulate multiple levels of control my school implemented to ensure the NPs they graduated were both capable and well prepared.  What is walden doing besides giving people diplomas for the capacity to write a paper and respond to posts?

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Specializes in Hospice, Geri, Psych and SA,.
47 minutes ago, PsychNurse24 said:

First of all, because you use the term diploma mills, it doesn’t mean that they exist.  Secondly, there is no over-saturation of Nurse Practitioners where I live; NP’s  are in great demand.  In fact, If you look anywhere at the outlook for future Nurse Practitioners, the demand continues to grow.   Google that, and you’ll be able to see the labor website that projects future demand for all jobs.   And where I work, the PMHNPs who have graduated from Walden are well-regarded.  Lastly, there is no proof that NPs from Walden, let’s say, do not have intelligence.  That is a gross insult, flung at people with no basis behind it.  Usually those types of broad insults are from people with low self-esteem.   Seriously, you have strong indications of having a Narcissistic Personality Disorder.  

So, you can diagnose someone with a personality disorder based off of a couple posts off a thread which you find personally offensive? Seems legit.

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Just now, TheMoonisMyLantern said:

So, you can diagnose someone with a personality disorder based off of a couple posts off a thread which you find personally offensive? Seems legit.

Forum posts are from what I understand what the Walden education is centered upon.  Takes the idea of telehealth to a different level.  Maybe next they will be diagnosing patients over email.

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Specializes in Psychiatric, in school for PMHNP..
1 hour ago, MentalKlarity said:

Because the point of view that diploma mills with no entry standards are somehow good for the profession makes absolutely no sense on any level. You haven't actually explained why having diploma mills is a "good thing" though we have given plenty of reasons why it's bad: oversaturated NP market, poorly prepared graduates that lack intelligence to be providers, and loss of respect from our colleagues.

Bureau of Labor Statistics predicts that from 2019 to 2029 nurse practitioners jobs will increase by 45%, much faster than average jobs.  I have enough intelligence to check this website before posting that there is an oversaturation of nurse practitioners. Not true, not true, not true.

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Specializes in Psychiatry.
5 minutes ago, PsychNurse24 said:

Bureau of Labor Statistics predicts that from 2019 to 2029 nurse practitioners jobs will increase by 45%, much faster than average jobs.  I have enough intelligence to check this website before posting that there is an oversaturation of nurse practitioners. Not true, not true, not true.

From 2010 to 2020, the number of NP graduates each year increased from 10K to 30K, or 300%. It has been steadily increasing every year by about 2,000 to 3,000, primarily due to the diploma mills which happily pump out several thousand a year and grow their class size as much as possible since the entire thing is self-guided. More students means more profit, regardless of actual outcomes.

 

300% is higher than 45%. The job market will not grow fast enough to absorb all the extra NPs even at 45% a decade. We'd be doing quite well if not for the diploma mills, but alas. 

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Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development.

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On 2/11/2021 at 12:15 PM, Neuro Guy NP said:

Well, I can't believe you're missing my point. I didn't say RNs aren't valuable so don't put words in my mouth. I explicitly acknowledged I value bedside RNs, and I do. It isn't lip service. Otherwise, I wouldn't waste my time being an educator or in public service of our profession. I just don't think RN experience, except for a few areas really does much to prepare for NP school. Mind you, the areas in which it does prepare are quite important and 'weighty' but in my experience this doesn't account for even half the battle. Aside from that, we'll have to agree to disagree so no sense going back and forth any further on it.

But you're also completely missing my point which is using the comparison between an RN and a grocery store cashier to illustrate that RN experience does prepare you somewhat for being an NP. It's not everything, but my point is that it is not nothing either.

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Specializes in Vascular Neurology and Neurocritical Care.
1 hour ago, Zyprexa_Ho said:

But you're also completely missing my point which is using the comparison between an RN and a grocery store cashier to illustrate that RN experience does prepare you somewhat for being an NP. It's not everything, but my point is that it is not nothing either.

The conversation has moved past this. Move along with us.

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On 2/10/2021 at 1:04 PM, Neuro Guy NP said:

Well please explain the similarity in what NPs do and RNs. I don't find myself at the bedside doing Nursing care plans, assessments q4h in the ICU, doing ADLs, vitals, calling providers for orders, etc.

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And this was the point of me comparing an RN becoming an NP to a grocery store cashier becoming an NP

They are different roles. They do different things. Yes. I get that. But to say that they have nothing to do with each other is blatantly false. 

On 2/19/2021 at 1:20 PM, Neuro Guy NP said:

The conversation has moved past this. Move along with us.

Maybe your conversation with other people, but not with me. Apparently you don't like people demonstrating that your comments are just plain wrong ?‍♂️

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Specializes in Vascular Neurology and Neurocritical Care.
5 hours ago, Zyprexa_Ho said:

...

And this was the point of me comparing an RN becoming an NP to a grocery store cashier becoming an NP

They are different roles. They do different things. Yes. I get that. But to say that they have nothing to do with each other is blatantly false. 

Maybe your conversation with other people, but not with me. Apparently you don't like people demonstrating that your comments are just plain wrong ?‍♂️

They're not plain wrong, we just have a difference of opinion. That's what's wrong with this country today. People can't be reasonable and just agree to disagree and respect other viewpoints. Instead, things have devolved into people feeling the need to attack other's viewpoints and their person. As someone else mentioned (perhaps you! But I don't know for sure as I can't recall and I won't be bothered to go back and hunt for it) you can't prove I'm definitely wrong since you 'don't have any research to prove it - again to paraphrase a previous post.

It's an opinion; it's one formed from my own experience in nursing but opinion nonetheless, so not sure how a person's feelings on a matter are wrong. Anyway..... but lastly, your replies are so delayed that the conversation is now stale. Give it a rest and let it go man.

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5 hours ago, Neuro Guy NP said:

They're not plain wrong, we just have a difference of opinion. That's what's wrong with this country today. People can't be reasonable and just agree to disagree and respect other viewpoints. Instead, things have devolved into people feeling the need to attack other's viewpoints and their person. As someone else mentioned (perhaps you! But I don't know for sure as I can't recall and I won't be bothered to go back and hunt for it) you can't prove I'm definitely wrong since you 'don't have any research to prove it - again to paraphrase a previous post.

It's an opinion; it's one formed from my own experience in nursing but opinion nonetheless, so not sure how a person's feelings on a matter are wrong. Anyway..... but lastly, your replies are so delayed that the conversation is now stale. Give it a rest and let it go man.

First, if you don't want to have a "stale" conversation, no one is forcing you to read or reply. I apologizing for not spending my life on AllNurses.

And some people in this country think that everything is an "opinion" when there is very clearly a rational basis for my argument and there is none for yours. It was not me stating that we cannot come to conclusions without a study being done. As we all should know, there are varying levels of evidence and not everything needs to be proven (nor can be) by a randomized, controlled trial.

I have given you reasons why my position is right. You have given me your "opinion" devoid of any supporting reasons. You continue to not engage with the reasons I have given and instead conflate my evidence with your lack of evidence.

How is scanning groceries, learning the rules of coupons, and learning PLU numbers comparable to learning medications, common dosages, symptoms of common medical conditions, common interventions for acute changes in status, etc (things that nurses do) in relation to preparing one to be a provider *at all*? That position is not only devoid of any supporting reasons, but just plain idiotic. To say that being a nurse provides no foundation at all for later becoming a provider is to completely ignore the role that nurses serve in the healthcare system.

Not all opinions are equal. Some have more a more rational foundation upon which they are built. You're welcome to your opinion. You're not welcome to compare your "opinion" to one that actually has a rational basis.

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Specializes in Vascular Neurology and Neurocritical Care.
20 hours ago, Zyprexa_Ho said:

First, if you don't want to have a "stale" conversation, no one is forcing you to read or reply. I apologizing for not spending my life on AllNurses.

And some people in this country think that everything is an "opinion" when there is very clearly a rational basis for my argument and there is none for yours. It was not me stating that we cannot come to conclusions without a study being done. As we all should know, there are varying levels of evidence and not everything needs to be proven (nor can be) by a randomized, controlled trial.

I have given you reasons why my position is right. You have given me your "opinion" devoid of any supporting reasons. You continue to not engage with the reasons I have given and instead conflate my evidence with your lack of evidence.

How is scanning groceries, learning the rules of coupons, and learning PLU numbers comparable to learning medications, common dosages, symptoms of common medical conditions, common interventions for acute changes in status, etc (things that nurses do) in relation to preparing one to be a provider *at all*? That position is not only devoid of any supporting reasons, but just plain idiotic. To say that being a nurse provides no foundation at all for later becoming a provider is to completely ignore the role that nurses serve in the healthcare system.

Not all opinions are equal. Some have more a more rational foundation upon which they are built. You're welcome to your opinion. You're not welcome to compare your "opinion" to one that actually has a rational basis.

You're right. I'll just disengage with you since you're not willing to discuss professionally or try to see my viewpoint. This isn't worth any more of time. I'm done.

Anything else?

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