We Must Demolish NP Diploma Mills

[cprimavera]

What is AANP doing with those programs??? I think we should unite to take an action on such diploma mills.

[djmatte, ADN, MSN, RN, NP]

35 minutes ago, Ace Savanahh said:

I’m in CA.  Some people express concern over every nurse coming from out of state.  It is rediculous.  Some are lousy and some are damn good.  Depends on the person.     

I have no doubt about that. But we’re talking shared experiences from very specific schools regarding expectations and competencies.  The bulk of NPs here have concerns. The onus is on the one freaking out about our opinions and concerns to maybe persuade us why those aren’t valid. Not the other way around.   The facts still remain, these schools provide no barrier of entry (good or bad) and no real oversight into the actual education or ability of their students. And nobody who attends there has commented or particularly argued against those facts.  They just carry on that “I am doing well” or “my clinical who currently employs me and wants me to work for them is excellent” attitude.   But they have nothing to offer regarding the broader student body or the actual school outcomes besides “no studies means I’m right”. 

[MentalKlarity, BSN, NP]

7 minutes ago, djmatte said:

I have no doubt about that. But we’re talking shared experiences from very specific schools regarding expectations and competencies.  The bulk of NPs here have concerns. The onus is on the one freaking out about our opinions and concerns to maybe persuade us why those aren’t valid. Not the other way around.   The facts still remain, these schools provide no barrier of entry (good or bad) and no real oversight into the actual education or ability of their students. And nobody who attends there has commented or particularly argued against those facts.  They just carry on that “I am doing well” or “my clinical who currently employs me and wants me to work for them is excellent” attitude.   But they have nothing to offer regarding the broader student body or the actual school outcomes besides “no studies means I’m right”. 

Right. And just Google around and you can endless posts on other forums and websites mocking our profession specifically because of these for-profits. They post images of the ads touting how to get an MSN in 18 months. They post screenshots from Walden graduates asking basic questions on social media while working as independent providers. There is nothing we can do to refute it because it's true - lax standards of entry means we're graduating less intelligent providers. NP school doesn't increase intelligence or critical thinking, it just gives you the tools you need to be a provider. If a school is not doing ANY assessment of who applies (interview, GRE, high GPA) then they aren't choosing the best and brightest. Even worse, some end up at diploma mills precisely because they were rejected from real schools with standards. 

[Ace Savanahh]

21 minutes ago, MentalKlarity said:

Right. And just Google around and you can endless posts on other forums and websites mocking our profession specifically because of these for-profits. They post images of the ads touting how to get an MSN in 18 months. They post screenshots from Walden graduates asking basic questions on social media while working as independent providers. There is nothing we can do to refute it because it's true - lax standards of entry means we're graduating less intelligent providers. NP school doesn't increase intelligence or critical thinking, it just gives you the tools you need to be a provider. If a school is not doing ANY assessment of who applies (interview, GRE, high GPA) then they aren't choosing the best and brightest. Even worse, some end up at diploma mills precisely because they were rejected from real schools with standards. 

18 months for an NP?  Not bad.  Some state schools in CA are doing a 1 year accelerated path for psych NPs because there is a lack of psychiatrists. They’re trying to fill the void in the inland empire and other parts with high drug addiction, homelessness, and psychiatric issues.   You will be earning your money there.  If I can’t get into one of these state schools, I’m going the fastest way possible.  

[djmatte, ADN, MSN, RN, NP]

No doubt the envy of your peers. 

[Hoosier_RN, MSN]

3 hours ago, Ace Savanahh said:

You should Read my updated post.  It really puts things into perspective.  

I did read it, but my comment came way before that.

In some settings, a CNA can insert, maintain, and d/c a Foley. Some can pass meds and do certain treatments in certain settings-it varies by state. 

Credentials matter, but again, I've met providers who are as dumb as a box of rocks,  others who are very intelligent,  and most who fall in between. There are people who don't have all of the formal education or alphabet soup behind their name, who have a very good grasp on what's going on. If you can't acknowledge that, then you are missing the point that many are trying to make, or are just in denial about a very realistic situation

[Corey Narry, MSN, RN, NP]

2 hours ago, Ace Savanahh said:

18 months for an NP?  Not bad.  Some state schools in CA are doing a 1 year accelerated path for psych NPs because there is a lack of psychiatrists. They’re trying to fill the void in the inland empire and other parts with high drug addiction, homelessness, and psychiatric issues.   You will be earning your money there.  If I can’t get into one of these state schools, I’m going the fastest way possible.  

Actually that one-year path to PMHNP is a post-master's plan only for those who are already NP's in another specialty or have a CNS designation in another specialty. It's a joint program by UCSF, UCLA, and UC Davis. Seems like they would have competitive admission cycles given the high degree of interest it's generating:

https://nursing.UCSF.edu/PMHNP-postmasters-certificate

[TheMoonisMyLantern, ADN, LPN, RN]

6 hours ago, PsychNurse24 said:

You are also beating a dead horse because you guys keep posting the same demands to demolish these universities.  You NEVER say anything new in these threads. And talk about ego and arrogance, “We need to demolish” are the words in the actual name of the thread.  Do you really think you all have the power to actually demolish the universities, and do you think ruining the universities and destroying the jobs and livelihoods is the answer?   I think you are much more arrogant than I.  As long as people agree with you they can post but because I disagree you tell me I’m beating the dead horse?  And  to want to demolish universities based on your opinions is ludicrous. When you do have data why don’t you start these discussions up again??

I'm just going to disengage with you on this topic. It is obvious you are unable to separate your emotions and need to have your choice of school validated and attempting to be sensitive to that has not gotten me or any other poster closer to getting you to see the flaws in the current state of NP education.

 

[PsychNurse24, BSN, RN]

2 minutes ago, TheMoonisMyLantern said:

I'm just going to disengage with you on this topic. It is obvious you are unable to separate your emotions and need to have your choice of school validated and attempting to be sensitive to that has not gotten me or any other poster closer to getting you to see the flaws in the current state of NP education.

 

Please do disengage. It is obvious to me that your whole point is “getting you to see the flaws ...”.   You only want people to come around to your point of you. You are not interested in other points of view.

[MentalKlarity, BSN, NP]

13 minutes ago, PsychNurse24 said:

Please do disengage. It is obvious to me that your whole point is “getting you to see the flaws ...”.   You only want people to come around to your point of you. You are not interested in other points of view.

Because the point of view that diploma mills with no entry standards are somehow good for the profession makes absolutely no sense on any level. You haven't actually explained why having diploma mills is a "good thing" though we have given plenty of reasons why it's bad: oversaturated NP market, poorly prepared graduates that lack intelligence to be providers, and loss of respect from our colleagues.

[djmatte, ADN, MSN, RN, NP]

18 minutes ago, PsychNurse24 said:

Please do disengage. It is obvious to me that your whole point is “getting you to see the flaws ...”.   You only want people to come around to your point of you. You are not interested in other points of view.

By all appearances, almost *everyone* is off that point of view. Except for those who feel threatened by their own choices and the image it presents should those schools actually be called out for the damage that they are risking our profession.  

[PsychNurse24, BSN, RN]

First of all, because you use the term diploma mills, it doesn’t mean that they exist.  Secondly, there is no over-saturation of Nurse Practitioners where I live; NP’s  are in great demand.  In fact, If you look anywhere at the outlook for future Nurse Practitioners, the demand continues to grow.   Google that, and you’ll be able to see the labor website that projects future demand for all jobs.   And where I work, the PMHNPs who have graduated from Walden are well-regarded.  Lastly, there is no proof that NPs from Walden, let’s say, do not have intelligence.  That is a gross insult, flung at people with no basis behind it.  Usually those types of broad insults are from people with low self-esteem.   Seriously, you have strong indications of having a Narcissistic Personality Disorder.  

[PsychNurse24, BSN, RN]

13 minutes ago, djmatte said:

By all appearances, almost *everyone* is off that point of view. Except for those who feel threatened by their own choices and the image it presents should those schools actually be called out for the damage that they are risking our profession.  

Ha ha ha, almost “everyone”!  You are so hilarious.  When you have talked to almost everyone, please let this thread know!!   And you say the damage that they are risking our profession, so you admit they have not actually caused any damage yet??!?  Please go back and take a research class. Disengaging with you now, but by all means, please post the last word!!