We Must Demolish NP Diploma Mills

[cprimavera]

What is AANP doing with those programs??? I think we should unite to take an action on such diploma mills.

[Ace Savanahh]

12 minutes ago, PsychNurse24 said:

Instead of concentrating on the entrance policies,  I would think you would all be concentrating on the finished product – – meaning do the graduates pass their certification boards and make good NPs? Don’t you know that medical doctors have the same kind of schools?  Oh but I forgot, you’re all so embarrassed!?!  Get over yourselves.

The thing that trips me out is that I have hear RNs with Associate degrees put down people pursuing their NP license and good offended when people bring up their BSN degrees.  They're just jealous. 

[MentalKlarity, BSN, NP]

20 minutes ago, PsychNurse24 said:

Instead of concentrating on the entrance policies,  I would think you would all be concentrating on the finished product – – meaning do the graduates pass their certification boards and make good NPs? Don’t you know that medical doctors have the same kind of schools?  Oh but I forgot, you’re all so embarrassed!?!  Get over yourselves.

Except they don't? Please point me to the for-profit medical school that doesn't require entrance tests and lets people start every month. Find me a medical school with a 90%+ acceptance rate.

 

You can't. Because they respect their profession and strive for the best, instead of just signing up for the online diploma mill because it's "easier" and let's them continue to work.

[PsychNurse24, BSN, RN]

7 minutes ago, MentalKlarity said:

Except they don't? Please point me to the for-profit medical school that doesn't require entrance tests and lets people start every month. Find me a medical school with a 90%+ acceptance rate.

 

You can't. Because they respect their profession and strive for the best, instead of just signing up for the online diploma mill because it's "easier" and let's them continue to work.

Please show me the data that “diploma mills” do not produce good NPs.  

[kaylee.]

On 2/10/2021 at 4:04 PM, JKL33 said:

It hurts quite a bit to admit it (?), but the whole pattern recognition thing is actually a bit of a hindrance to learning the provider role. It hurts to admit that alllll my past experiences independently amount to me being able to make a few "educated guesses" about what something "could be." And that, outside of the education I am now involved in, I have very little experience with systematically using a significant body of knowledge to think (rather than guess) my way to a correct answer.

Well you described a nurse who does the bare minimum thinking and learning and studying in there time at the bedside (which is what u are saying u did). Newsflash, the RN role doesnt cap your brain at the bare minimum to complete tasks. You are at liberty to think and reason through your clinical work and take the time to read up things and watch lectures online if u want.  
 

I know there are nurses that havent cracked a book since nursing school and their idea of gaining of knowledge consists of whatever they passively can absorb while doing nursing care so they can back to their desk and resume scrolling on instagram. (This last comment may inflame people but it is meant to suggest that active learning is a choice.)
 

Thats not to say I know how to do a differential or am able at this time to do a full workup, but there is no rule stopping me from thinking beyond how to prime an IV. 
 

I am not saying the RN is the same as the NP. It's not. I am in clinical reasoning in my NP Program, and I cant imagine having no bedside. I agree that RNs are not able to successfully do this. But if am able to make an educated guess about a diagnosis, imagine a new grad: it would have to be just taking shots in the dark. They would have to commit to rigorous study and even then it would be an uphill battle. 

[MentalKlarity, BSN, NP]

46 minutes ago, PsychNurse24 said:

Please show me the data that “diploma mills” do not produce good NPs.  

You moved the goalpost? We've already discussed that that thankfully this study hasn't been completed. You can bet we will all find out when it is, and the AMA is featuring in ads and lobbying to remove our independence because the for-profits diploma mill graduates show poor patient outcomes. 

 

But again, your last post was telling us that there are also diploma mill medical schools. Please, show us those.

[JKL33]

18 minutes ago, kaylee. said:

Well you described a nurse who does the bare minimum thinking and learning and studying in there time at the bedside (which is what u are saying u did). Newsflash, the RN role doesnt cap your brain at the bare minimum to complete tasks. You are at liberty to think and reason through your clinical work and take the time to read up things and watch lectures online if u want.

The train of thought was more that of relative comparison. I guess if I have nothing else going for me I'll take solace in the fact that I'm not likely to become a victim of Dunning-Kruger.

[PsychNurse24, BSN, RN]

1 hour ago, PsychNurse24 said:

Please show me the data that “diploma mills” do not produce good NPs.  

Your whole premise is that there are “diploma mills” out there and that it is embarrassing that they accept everyone. So please defend your premise with data!!  Why is it so horrible that they accept everyone. Please prove that these universities turn out poor quality nurse practitioners!  You don’t have any data!!   You just have your opinions.  

[MentalKlarity, BSN, NP]

4 minutes ago, PsychNurse24 said:

Your whole premise is that there are “diploma mills” out there and that it is embarrassing that they accept everyone. So please defend your premise with data!!  Why is it so horrible that they accept everyone. Please prove that these universities turn out poor quality nurse practitioners!  You don’t have any data!!   You just have your opinions.  

There should be entry standards. Do you truly thing everyone is intelligent enough to be a medical provider? I've met a number of diploma-mill graduates. I even did clinicals with one in a shared office. They're not impressive. It's scary. Even physicians who used to fight for and respect NPs are starting to pull back. It's becoming indefensible at this point. The profession will be better off and have a brighter future if they eventually close down and I hope they do.

[PsychNurse24, BSN, RN]

1 hour ago, PsychNurse24 said:

Please show me the data that “diploma mills” do not produce good NPs.  

Medical schools that you might consider diploma mills:

And here’s a start for you:  Saint James medical school, no MCAT needed.  For accelerated, online medical degree:  Lake Erie College of osteopathic medicine.  They advertise that they Have produced the fourth highest number of PCPs.  University of Western Ontario has a family medical doctor degree. It features two weeks a year on site with the rest of the learning online.  That was after 10 minutes of searching. I know this because I’ve seen Online medical students come through my place of work.  I’m sure I could send you 100 more if I had more time to do it. But I refuse to spend more time. Do your own research

6 minutes ago, MentalKlarity said:

There should be entry standards. Do you truly thing everyone is intelligent enough to be a medical provider? I've met a number of diploma-mill graduates. I even did clinicals with one in a shared office. They're not impressive. It's scary. Even physicians who used to fight for and respect NPs are starting to pull back. It's becoming indefensible at this point. The profession will be better off and have a brighter future if they eventually close down and I hope they do.

Your opinion only, again!!

[MentalKlarity, BSN, NP]

11 minutes ago, PsychNurse24 said:

Medical schools that you might consider diploma mills:

And here’s a start for you:  Saint James medical school, no MCAT needed.  For accelerated, online medical degree:  Lake Erie College of osteopathic medicine.  They advertise that they Have produced the fourth highest number of PCPs.  University of Western Ontario has a family medical doctor degree. It features two weeks a year on site with the rest of the learning online.  That was after 10 minutes of searching. I know this because I’ve seen Online medical students come through my place of work.  I’m sure I could send you 100 more if I had more time to do it. But I refuse to spend more time. Do your own research

Your opinion only, again!!

Saint James is a Caribbean medical school.

LECOM has a total of 2,000 students across all 4 years, that's 500 a year from the LARGEST medical school. Walden graduates 500 a MONTH. It also has a 12% acceptance rate and requires the MCAT.

Western Ontario is in Canada (??) and unsure why you've included it as it's not for-profit or a diploma mill?

 

Look I'm sorry but there's not a Walden equivalent in the PA/MD world. They don't have any 100% acceptance rate schools that take anyone with a pulse and pumps out thousands of graduates per year regardless of their intellect.

 

And it's more than just my opinion, it's the opinion of many people and more everyday once they find out how bad these schools are. 

[PsychNurse24, BSN, RN]

I’m beginning to think you flunked out of Walden!  Blind hatred.  

[Alicia777, MSN, NP]

Ugh