Valid Reasons To Not Get Vaccinated

macawake, MSN · Aug 23, 2021

17 hours ago, hello_nurse555 said:

K fine I'll bite even though it's not going to convince anyone to change a thing.

I'm a bedside nurse, been surrounded by covid since the start, and haven't gotten sick (thank god). I started regularly taking antibody tests last year and had antibodies as of a few weeks ago.

I'm not getting the vaccine. I wanted to wait a few years to see how things were going with it before I got it.

Everyone says it's safe, and I won't believe that until it has been out for a few decades.

Hi there new member.

So is it your theory that you have SARS-CoV-2 antibodies without ever having been infected and not been vaccinated? You will no doubt be of great interest to researchers… I’m kind of curious why you started taking antibody tests if you didn’t think you’d previously had an infection... ? And you believe that you have to wait decades before you know if a vaccine is safe, or not?

I knew that people who are opposed to getting vaccinated would have to come up with new excuses now that the first Covid vaccine has gotten full approval in the U.S., but I didn’t anticipate the goal posts being moved quite so far. I’m almost impressed.

If you understood how vaccines work, you would also understand just how illogical it is to think that vaccine side effects could take decades to emerge/reveal themselves. Five billion people vaccinated worldwide, we have an enormous amount of safety data available. All the approved or EUA vaccines in the U.S. are safe and effective.

17 hours ago, hello_nurse555 said:

We need a control group of the unvaccinated. I volunteer because I refuse to believe our species needs this to survive.

Unfortunately you already have a control group of many millions, many of them busy gasping for air and dying in hospitals around your country and the world as we speak. You didn’t really need to ”volunteer”. Many of those dying in other parts of the world, are doing so because they haven’t yet had the opportunity to get vaccinated. Unlike the U.S. where vaccines have been available to everyone for quite some time. I have no idea why people are volunteering to die, or at the very least volunteering to risk death when there are effective vaccines available.

It’s interesting to see the differences between the U.S. and my own country when it come to vaccination coverage and scepticism. Here we don’t have a political divide. Here the differences are along the traditional socioeconomic lines. If you are native-born, have a high income and higher education, you are much more likely to be vaccinated against Covid-19 than if you are foreign-born, have low income and lower education. Political partisanship isn’t a factor when it comes to deciding on whether to get vaccinated.

Fun fact, the only politicization we’ve seen really, was when at one point in the pandemic the only party (right-wing, populist, anti-immigration) out of our eight political parties who have actually voiced some support and admiration for Trump Et Al., were raising a bit of a stink and demanding mask mandates. Yes. Imagine that.

17 hours ago, hello_nurse555 said:

He said we would be creating superbugs with the current implementation, and eventually deadlier and deadlier variants would emerge. We now have the delta variant. What after?

Perhaps the vaccines are causing the variants, and it is not the unvaccinated causing the problem. It is worth considering. All perspectives should be worth considering (Check out the Barrington Report).

No, it is not worth considering. The vaccines have not caused the variants. All the variants of concern Alpha, Beta, Gamma and Delta emerged in 2020 BEFORE we started vaccinating.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/08/07/did-covid-19-vaccines-cause-coronavirus-delta-variants-no-evidence-behind-such-claims/

https://www.who.int/en/activities/tracking-SARS-CoV-2-variants/

17 hours ago, hello_nurse555 said:

Well, I'm repulsed by the bullying I see over it, and that pretty much sealed my decision not to get it. If that offends you, maybe work on your triggers, because the bullying and name calling helps no one. You aren't changing any minds, just helping people dig their heels in.

I’m sure that OP will be happy to note the timely arrival of a new member, echoing his own stance almost verbatim. He probably needed a bit of a morale boost, since many nurses on the forum disagrees with his viewpoint.

17 hours ago, hello_nurse555 said:

Because there is something off with leadership, and I don't trust a government that performs forced, non-consented sterilizations or syphilis infections on groups of people, among other things. I do believe sociopaths have their own agenda, and I do believe sociopaths have a lot of power in this world, and I do believe if you research you can see their views on population control.

I don't care if distrust makes me sound like a wingnut. I assure you I am sane, and I have my reasons to believe we should have more transparency on upper tiers of the power structure.

It does make you sound like a conspiracy theorist. What about the pandemic is it that you think is planned ”population control”? The virus? The vaccines? Both? And who has planned it? To what end?

Was the bubonic plague epidemic in the mid 14th century and the Spanish flu pandemic in 1918 planned by ancestors of the modern day sociopaths? If not, what in your mind has changed since then? Why would you consider previous pandemics ocurring naturally, but this one having nefarious motives? We certainly travel more today and intermingle more than we did a hundred years, let alone 700 years ago, so to me a pandemic seems like a pretty plausible event without anyone having planned it.

17 hours ago, hello_nurse555 said:

I believe the psychology driving all this is fear, and I believe first it was the masks, could have been politics, could have been racism, now it's the vaccines, but people love a good scapegoat, and that might make us blind. We need to work together now more than ever before.

Yes, we do need to work together. But I suspect that you and I have different things in mind when we say that.

We need to get as many people as possible vaccinated globally, as soon as possible. This is a time to show solidarity with our elders, with those who are immunocompromised and anyone else who could potentially have a bad outcome from a Covid infection. And that’s pretty much everyone, even those of us who are fortunate enough to be healthy now and at an age that makes us relatively low-risk.

This is the time when we should demonstrate that we actually care about the community we live in.

As far as this pandemic is concerned, I’ve never been guided by fear. Caution and common sense and a conviction that trusting scientific evidence will be our way out of this.

jive turkey · Aug 23, 2021

5 hours ago, BostonFNP said:

The title of this thread is "Valid Reasons Not to Get Vaccinated".

Obviously.

I stated numerous times what I would consider a valid reason. You and many others don't agree.

I'm fine with that.

Maybe the rest of you aren't

5 hours ago, BostonFNP said:

1.You say you are looking for rational discourse and legitimate sources of information, but you have pushed back on everyone that hasn't given you the answer you were looking for.

2.You feel attacked for your position and by the nature of that prove that you have a position you are defending. You mention debating a differing opinion so it is clear you have one.

3.And it is clear by your posting history that you had/have already decided not to have the vaccine. Is this not true?

1. I wasn't looking for an "answer" I was receptive to information and different perspectives. Most of what I saw from people with opposing views wasn't anything I didn't know already.

I can't say what other people think and feel. I'm left with the impression you and others are bothered because you disagree with me and aren't offering anything that'll change my perspective.

And you don't need to. We disagree and it's OK

2. Cmon Boston. When someone uses derogatory words to refer to you and questions your credentials those are personal attacks. You've seen them, and possibly overlooked them because they came from people you agree with.

Yea, it's very clear I have an opinion and I told you what it was. I don't understand why you're stating the obvious.

3. I've said before, my vaccination status is none of your or anybody else's business. That's why it looks silly when someone tells me "you should get vaccinated" because they don't know if I have. Resist the desire to make this personal.

Ironically I've said things in support of the shot but you all seem to overlook that just to argue with me about what I consider a valid reason not to??

We can agree to disagree Boston.

3 hours ago, Horseshoe said:

Take "Not FDA approved" off the list of "valid" reasons not to get vaccinated.

And cue the "The FDA is run by an elitist pedophilia cabal" nonsense in 3, 2, 1...

Did I ever say it was? Nope. You're countering a non-existent challenge.

GrumpyRN, NP · Aug 23, 2021

14 hours ago, hello_nurse555 said:

I saw a compelling argument by Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche...

How Geert Vanden Bossche is Destroying American Herd Immunity

https://medika.life/how-geert-vanden-bossche-is-destroying-american-herd-immunity/

Geert Vanden Bossche Stokes Fear of COVID-19 Vaccine To Promote His Own Flawed ‘Solution’

https://www.snopes.com/news/2021/03/26/geert-vanden-bossche/

15 hours ago, hello_nurse555 said:

(Check out the Barrington Report).

The Great Barrington Declaration: When Arrogance Leads to Recklessness

https://www.usnews.com/news/healthiest-communities/articles/2020-11-06/when-scientists-arrogance-leads-to-recklessness-the-great-barrington-declaration

I also agree with every word macawake wrote, they just beat me to it and did it better than I would have.

macawake, MSN · Aug 23, 2021

16 hours ago, jive turkey said:

1. THANK YOU. I've been telling people in this forum that I know so many people who went from being on the fence about the vaccine to outright refusing it because of the bullying and disrespect. There's proof right there

2. Right! Just like when the CDC Said it was OK for the vaccinated to take off their masks. Oops!

3. Even though we don't know if that's for sure or not it's definitely worth considering and being receptive to more information. how horrible would it be if that was the case but we're so busy pushing the vaccine it's making it worse? Hopefully that's not the case!

4. THANK YOU. Why would a billionaire want to take a 6 figure job? That's a hint. I often tell people that the wealthy and people in power treat its citizens like a farmer does its livestock. They'll do enough to take care of you to ensure you can continue serving their interests

5. Hi 5!

6. Very true. We should all be wary and aware, vaccinated or not

7. Amen!

8. I laughed out loud in that. I've been telling people for months that you have to be careful with new drugs for that exact reason because years later you see one of those late night attorney commercials with the guy with the raspy voice saying "you may be entitled to a large cash settlement"

9. Black versus white, Republican versus Democrat, pro vax versus anti-vax. Always divided and hating each other over something

10. Truth

It was refreshing to finally have somebody get in this with a voice of reason and not one sided.!

You’ve got some interesting symbiosis going there with this brand new member. It’s almost as if you’re talking to yourself.

1. Sure. Someone realizes that vaccines saves lives and that Covid can kill you, but decides not to vaccinate just to show those rude, bullying nurses what’s what.

2. Yes. They should always stick to the same advice year after year. It shouldn’t matter if new knowledge about a novel virus or a new variant is gained or if circumstances change. That’s the scientific model in a nutshell. Never consider new data. (<— yes, yes.. that is sarcasm).

3. I don’t think your ”hope it’s not the case” in this context is sincere. You are clearly attempting to sow the seed of vaccines potentially being harmful. But anyway, I’m here to assuage your fears. Delta emerged in October 2020. We started vaccinating in December 2020. Even today, towards the end of August 2021, less than 10% of people in India are fully vaccinated. So no, you can’t blame the various variants of concern on the vaccines.

4. Trump?

5. It takes one to know one.

6. So it is your and your twin spirits’ theory that the just because the unvaccinated are those being hospitalized and dying now, doesn’t mean that some time in the future being unvaccinated won’t.. what.. exactly? Or being vaccinated will mean what?! You need to clarify your line of thinking here. It’s a bit muddled.

7. Too right! And Hallelujah! We’ve never defeated infectious diseases using vaccines. (<— any nurse out there will recognize this as obvious sarcasm).

8. Vaccine side effects don’t take years or decades to manifest.

9. I can’t even..

10. Truth?! So you also think that there are a bunch of people out there with natural immunity to Covid-19 without ever having been infected by the SARS-CoV-2 virus?

It’s interesting how someone who sounds and thinks exactly like you, isn’t being one-sided and is considered a voice of reason.

I wonder if you realize just how much your post reveals about how you feel about the vaccines. You can keep telling us that you aren’t against the vaccines but really, we know better. You can’t convince posters that you are somehow middle-of-the-road given that everything you write makes it clear where your sympathies lie. Seriously, you started a thread about reasons to NOT get vaccinated. We’ve known since page 1. (Actually earlier, since this isn’t the first thread we’ve been discussing vaccines in).

guest1163268 · Aug 23, 2021

I wonder how the anti vaxxers actually resolve the issue or accept the blame, when their loved ones who has a non covid related illness that needs medical follow-up, but cannot get into a facility because all of the beds are taken up or the medical personnel are otherwise occupied with covid related complications?

And the condition worsens or was fatal?

I actually think that the general psych makeup of those individuals, already lacks the empathy factor to care or already employs huge pathological mental health defense mechanisms, that allows them to circumvent blame or shame, from most events!

I actually know from experience, many such patients with exactly those deficits, that leave a swath of destruction in their wake! And they never make the connection that it's them or refuse to psychologically or emotionally grow continuously destroying even their close family members into old age and BEYOND!

Because, believe me, it doesn't just end with their demise! That pathological stubbornness ensures that they only seek out weak, victim oriented individuals to create families with and you can easily trace in the ever widespread circles, how a SINGLE PERSON can wreak havoc for generations!

What's worse, is the numerous identifiable occasions where it could have been stopped, if people just had a spinal column and said something or taken a stand, instead of being the jellyfish that just conformed!

jive turkey · Aug 23, 2021

9 minutes ago, Curious1997 said:

I wonder how the anti vaxxers actually resolve the issue or accept the blame, when their loved ones who has a non covid related illness that needs medical follow-up, but cannot get into a facility because all of the beds are taken up or the medical personnel are otherwise occupied with covid related complications?

And the condition worsens or was fatal?

I actually think that the general psych makeup of those individuals, already lacks the empathy factor to care or already employs huge pathological mental health defense mechanisms, that allows them to circumvent blame or shame, from most events!

I actually know from experience, many such patients with exactly those deficits, that leave a swath of destruction in their wake! And they never make the connection that it's them or refuse to psychologically or emotionally grow continuously destroying even their close family members into old age and BEYOND!

Because, believe me, it doesn't just end with their demise! That pathological stubbornness ensures that they only seek out weak, victim oriented individuals to create families with and you can easily trace in the ever widespread circles, how a SINGLE PERSON can wreak havoc for generations!

What's worse, is the numerous identifiable occasions where it could have been stopped, if people just had a spinal column and said something or taken a stand, instead of being the jellyfish that just conformed!

Who do you identify as an "anti vaxxer"?

I ask because there doesn't seem to be consistency regarding what people think an anti vaxxer is. Id like my facts straight before replying to what you said.

hello_nurse555 · Aug 23, 2021

A snopes article versus a scientist who is an expert in his field. I'll choose the scientist.

I don't know, maybe ask the victims of the Tuskegee experiment how they felt years later, or the Kenyan recipients of the Bill Gates vaccine.

I know of a lot of healthcare workers who never got sick but have antibodies. We have been constantly exposed, so at some point our bodies must have mounted an immune response.

Side note I do advise those who have immune deficiencies or other risk factors to get it. But for the young and healthy what I want to see is if natural immunity is better.

So the delta variant beat the vaccine and now we have a deadlier strain. It sounds to me like the Dr. was correct.

We have never used a vaccine mid pandemic with a coronavirus.

OK believe what you want. All you are doing is discouraging nurses with this viewpoint to share their opinions. I'm fortunate to be surrounded by an administration and staff who share the same views I do, so I don't anticipate being required to have a vaccine any time soon, thankfully. I, and every other hcw, should have the right to choose after the year we just had.

subee, MSN, CRNA · Aug 23, 2021

1 minute ago, hello_nurse555 said:

A snopes article versus a scientist who is an expert in his field. I'll choose the scientist.

I don't know, maybe ask the victims of the Tuskegee experiment how they felt years later, or the Kenyan recipients of the Bill Gates vaccine.

I know of a lot of healthcare workers who never got sick but have antibodies. We have been constantly exposed, so at some point our bodies must have mounted an immune response.

Side note I do advise those who have immune deficiencies or other risk factors to get it. But for the young and healthy what I want to see is if natural immunity is better.

So the delta variant beat the vaccine and now we have a deadlier strain. It sounds to me like the Dr. was correct.

We have never used a vaccine mid pandemic with a coronavirus.

OK believe what you want. All you are doing is discouraging nurses with this viewpoint to share their opinions. I'm fortunate to be surrounded by an administration and staff who share the same views I do, so I don't anticipate being required to have a vaccine any time soon, thankfully. I, and every other hcw, should have the right to choose after the year we just had.

I don't believe what I want; I believe what I SEE and READ. I don't know why you just don't research the difference between natural immunity and vaccine immunity. They are not the same. Vaccine immunity is superior and lasts a little longer than natural immunity. If I believed what I wanted to believe....wow! Too hard to imagine how hard my life would be.

Horseshoe, BSN, RN · Aug 23, 2021

18 minutes ago, hello_nurse555 said:

So the delta variant beat the vaccine and now we have a deadlier strain. It sounds to me like the Dr. was correct.

So that's a big fat lie. The delta variant has not "beat the vaccine." Vaccinated individuals are FAR less likely to suffer serious illness, hospitalization, and death than infected unvaccinated individuals. In March 2020, as we looked on in horror as we saw the deaths in Italy from this virus, if you had told us that we would soon have access to a vaccine that doesn't prevent infection 100%, but did usually prevent serious illness or death, many of us would have seen that as a huge success.

FutureNP90 · Aug 23, 2021

32 minutes ago, hello_nurse555 said:

I know of a lot of healthcare workers who never got sick but have antibodies. We have been constantly exposed, so at some point our bodies must have mounted an immune response.

how?

Maybe I don't know much about the immune system, but how does this work? and how does this make more sense than the vaccine?

Tenebrae, BSN, RN · Aug 23, 2021

On 8/18/2021 at 3:55 AM, subee said:

And, remember, that out of the 6.506 events reported doesn't mean that anyone actually died from the vaccine. I can report that my big toe ached for two days after I had the jab and it would be included.

I was really exhausted after my second dose.

It could have been due to the vaccination, it also could have been due to the fact I'm a shift worker and am chronically exhausted.

I can understand peoples nervousness. VAERS is not a good resource to base decisions on.

it could be that Aunt Annie down the road had a nose bleed after their covid shot and decided to report that to VAERS. However what that doesnt tell anyone is that Aunt Annie has a history of chronic epistaxis and has about 5-10 nose bleeds a month. Could the vaccine have caused Aunt Annies nose bleed? Possibly. However its more likely related to that well established preexisting condition.

Hope this makes sense

klone, MSN, RN · Aug 23, 2021

Quote

But those reactions could include anything from unconfirmed reports of minor side effects, like arm soreness, to events that likely are not caused by the vaccine. Adverse events in the database for the COVID vaccines currently include a traffic accident, a gunshot wound, illiteracy, a decreased “frustration tolerance,” and, counterintuitively, a negative chlamydia test

https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjpmp7/anti-vaxxers-misuse-federal-data-to-falsely-claim-covid-vaccines-are-dangerous